7 replies to this topic

[Art]

Does anyone remember in the last few years a team was acused of stealing another teams idea? My memory tells me that the crooks were banned from using the other teams idea. If so how does a team come up with a new idea and the next race every one is using it?

Art NX3L

[desmo]

If "borrowing" ideas was made illegal in racing, development would come to a grinding halt. Good engineers will take ideas anywhere they can find them.

[PDA]

The only instance I recall was the launch of Arrows. All of the main guys for that team had just left ?Shadow?, and they were accused of stealing (or copying) the whole design. They were forced to come up with a new design and car by the third or fourth race is I remember correctly.

generally, copying a good design concept is regarded as fair (I think). However, if the idea/design innovation has been patented, then the originator would have grounds for suing the copier.

[Paste]

Re: Arrows vs Shadow - There was a breakaway group from Shadow, and yup, the Arrows really did end up looking more than a little like the Shadow, and I think you're also correct on the 3 or 4 race part.

I don't think anyone ended up getting into trouble for it, but I remember that the 1995 Benetton and the 1995 Ligier bore a striking resemblence to one another. Apparently they managed to prove that enough of the car was different to please the FIA.

[This message has been edited by Paste (edited 03-02-2000).]

[Art]

Where I come from borrowing ideas without premission is called Industrial espinage. To me any Engineer worth a grane of Salt isn't going to peek into someones window to get ideas to make him look like a great Engineer.I can see my self at the World Engineering Convention. My name is art I designed the Magutney Bomber F1 Car with ideas I got by peeking in every ones back window. Can you imagine the response???

Art NX3L

[PDA]

Another example was the refusal to allow the entry of the BRP in either 64 or 65. this was FOCA ganging up on someone they didn;t want in their club. The excuse was that the car was a copy of the Lotus 25. Designer Tony Rudd was very dignified about it, but driver Innes Ireland was extremely vocal, as it cost him his place in the grand Prix circus.

[BRG]

There is a difference between stealing or copying someone else’s idea(s) which is industrial espionage and taking your own idea(s) elsewhere yourself.

In the case of Arrows/Shadow, the design team took their design with them to the new Arrows team, but Shadow also retained it and maintained that it was their property because it was done whilst the design team worked for them. So who owned the rights to that idea? The authorities ruled against Arrows who had to come up with a new design. But you can argue both ways about the rights and wrongs of this. Is my idea mine or my employers? One for the lawyers, I guess.




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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Ray Bell]

I think the original Arrows lasted further into the year than just 3 or 4 races... but I have been wrong before.
There was another case that made the papers, that of the late Paul Collins' brother, Peter. He crawled under the tent flaps - I think at the Osterreichring - and got a real good look at the dominant Williams (FW07) of the day. This elevated his position in the Lotus camp somewhat...