16 replies to this topic

[Art]

After 46 years ov following GP racing and finally realizing the gastly restrictions on the engineers. I no longer have the desire to follow the engineering end ov F1. I will follow Michael untill he retires than that is it. I have enjoyed talking to you all and wish you well.

Art NX3L= my amateur radio call.

[Jonathan]

Art

F1 Racing changes year after year. Sure you might give up now... but in a year or two you will be back (thats assuming your warranty doesn't expire). Max wont last forever.

[PDA]

Art - although restricted to 10 cylinders, engines still have a fair bit of design freedom - and engines have almost always been the heart of F1. Usually, the car with the best engine wins. Unfortunately, the engineers are so secretive nowadays that we rarely see a glimpse of the outside of an engine these days. remember the days when we got cutaway drawings when a new car/engine was launched, with all the critical dimensions published?

[Ray Bell]

Despondency with modern times is quite normal, Art, but you've been blind not to see much of this just watching the races on TV and reading magazines.
Jenkinson hated where F1 was heading in 1978 - but he still loved F1 and did for the rest of his life.
Would it help if I sent you some more poetry?
Maybe on a motor racing subject?

[Art]

Despondent no disgusted yes.

Narrow the tract,grooved tires,no V12s,no wild ideas, all weather tires.the cars are to fast. Don't reduce displacement to two liters it would be to expensive. You don't hear Honda,Ferrari,BMW,Peugeot moaning about engine costs just Bernie Max and Ron Dennis! Don't let another Colin Chapman come along as a little under powered team might put an ass whipping on Bernie & Maxes boys(McLaren and Williams). If it looks like a Duck walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck it is a Duck.

Art NX3L

[Art]

If it is true that the side pods will run to the front wheels next year? They surely will look like a packing crate. Some one would surely make them wedged shaped to gain down force. If Mad Max would eliminate the nose piece we would have a flying Brick with a rear wing. And you wonder why I am fed up with F1 rules!

Art NX3L

[desmo]

Art,
I agree with you 100%. There is precious little room left in the sport for any creativity on the part of the designers or engineers.

I think that most of this is due to the large sums of money involved. The more money involved, the less important the sport becomes and it becomes more about the managers and sponsors. The rules are constructed so that the emphasis is on horrifically expensive detail development rather than new ideas. This helps maintain the status quo, which is what the suit monkeys crave above all else. When large sums of money become involved, humans become afraid of any instability or risk, even if only percieved. As well, the micromanaging regs send the message that Max and Bernie are in command, so don't even THINK about trying anything new or different or they'll ban whatever it is post haste.

When money runs the sport, it tends to become a show business exercise like NASCAR because this is what the sponsors will always want, a tightly managed show with no unpleasant (read any) surprises.

[Art]

Desmo.

The only place we can see some what of a free hand in design are the LeMans Proto Types. But watching them once a year kills that. I watch a lot ov Touring cars world Rallying and Sprint cars on 1/2 mile dirt tracks. So I always have some thing interesting to watch.

Art NX3L

[Yohbi]

Art don't give up the ghost! I have been a fan for 42 years. I'm hoping to see Mosley and Bernie retire, but I'm afraid the "sport" has become too big of a marketing spectacle to go back to the days of buying a Ford V-8 and using the inventive "tricks" that Chapman did at Lotus. There is too much publicity and market share to be losted if one team is more inventive then the other one. Look at the boring season of 1988.

Hopefully, there should be more parity with Jaguar and Jordan getting closer to McLaren and Ferrari.

For sheer excitment, check out a CART race. The best one for passing is Cleveland. It's on a lake front airport circuit that is STILL in use except on race week.

Take Care,

Yohbi

[Art]

Yohbi.

It looks like there are only two teams with any thing going for them at all. McLaren and Ferrari I am wondering if F1 has turned into a huge scam. The news reads McLaren spends $100,000,000.00 a year! Just where are they spending it? Cars $1,000,000.00 each old suspension and modified brakes aero changes in body. engine updates a lot ov them are free for advertisement purposes. By freezing developement the teams get millions for livery space and the team owners pocket the rest after Bernie gets his kick back. It is a sad state ov affair.

Art NX3L

[Art]

Yohbi.

It looks like there are only two teams with any thing going for them at all. McLaren and Ferrari I am wondering if F1 has turned into a huge scam. The news reads McLaren spends $100,000,000.00 a year! Just where are they spending it? Cars $1,000,000.00 each old suspension and modified brakes aero changes in body. engine updates a lot ov them are free for advertisement purposes. By freezing developement the teams get millions for livery space and the team owners pocket the rest after Bernie gets his kick back. It is a sad state ov affair.

Art NX3L

[Art]

Sorry for the double thread some thing must be wrong with my key board.

Art NX3L

[CVAndrw]

I freely admit I've only been obsessed with F1 for 36 years, but if a mere neophyte might be allowed to express an opinion:

1. When I came in, everyone was moaning that the ridiculous 1.5 liter formula had made the so-called Grandes Epreuves irreparably second-rate.
2. The Brabham/Repco was a hot rod, not a Grand Prix car, right?
3. First wings and ultimately ground effects turned the cars into mere slot cars, “driven” by a bunch of brave but talentless lunatics who knew nothing but how to flick an on/off switch.
4. Turbocharging would squeeze out anyone without a factory engine deal and a multimillion dollar budget.
5. Fuel restrictions meant actual racing was over, replaced by economy runs.
6. McLaren’s winning 15 out of 16 meant the sport had become a parade, devoid of competition and forever to be a demonstration of superiority by the damned Japanese.
7. Active suspension and traction control created a situation where a monkey could win the World Championship- and did (twice, wasn’t it?).

No doubt people felt the same way when the Nazi steamroller squashed Alfa Romeo into oblivion. And Grand Prix was really never the same after Bugatti packed up. I confess I actually thought that in 1998, despite Max’s idiotic tire philosophy, Goodyear and Bridgestone helped Schumacher and Hakkinen put up one of the most electrifying displays ever, and that the eternal unattainability of technological perfection even made last year wickedly entertaining (in a slapstick sort of way), but I guess it must be because my standards are so low.

If I weren’t so innocent I probably couldn’t forgive myself for believing that, despite today’s (yes, I agree) absurdly and unnecessarily restrictive (but most likely transitory) regulations, they’re still the fastest race cars driven by the fastest drivers on earth. Always have been, always will be, and, God forgive me, I still love ‘em.

[davo]

CVAndrw
I agree with you totally. I think F1 often (perhaps more often than not) vanishes up its own fundamental orifice - that the good old days are indeed old, and that what is good about them wasn't immediately apparent.

I think what I enjoy in contemporary F1 varies as the sport itself varies. Sometimes the personalities, other times the tech, then the business, and then the high farce in a way that only F1 seems able to do - FISA/FOCA, and various rule changes.

Looking back I love the extreme of 1.5L turbos although I cant admit to loving them as fondly at the time.

As an aside I would be very interested to see how second string teams actually perform in the first season after a substantial rule change. I am thinking modern - as in 1980s onwards. I suspect but cannot yet quantify that the monied teams actually do better with respect to the mid field in the years in which the rules have substantially altered the cars. That their extra money, personnel, testing actually have more, not less of an impact, in year one.

Interested to see if anyone can put any stats on it to confirm my thoughts... ...or to change them.

[Laphroaig]

Sorry folks, little flashback:
Art: "If it is true that the side pods will run to the front wheels next year? [..] Some one would surely make them wedged shaped to gain down force. If Mad Max would eliminate the nose piece we would have a flying Brick with a rear wing..."
Hell ... that reminds me of the '81 (???) season cars! Dunno if it's 81, but it the year where Piquet and Salazar start doing some track-side Kung-Fu!
Those cars had exactly the same shape as described above *lol*

[Barry Lake]

In the 1970s I visited motor racing artist Rob Shepherd in Sydney. He had followed motor racing since he was a youngster in the 1920s. He told me he lost interest in GP racing "when they put independent front suspension on them". They were no longer "real men's cars" he said.
I suggested that some cars had independent front suspension from the early 1930s and he said, "Yes, that's about when I lost interest in them".
Personally, I think it's never been the same since Georges Boillot's days...
Of course, there were those who decried the passing of the tiller, replaced by those ridiculous steering wheels. Not the sort of thing a real man would use, although I believe Australian-born S F Edge had a lot to do with that and no-one ever accused him of being a pussycat.

[Ray Bell]

Speaking of independent front suspension, Barry, do you have a picture that clearly depicts the independent front end on the later model P3s? I can't find one anywhere - also the reversed quarter eliptic rear spring?
Could you email them to me if you have them?