10 replies to this topic

[Jhope]

does anyone think that without new rule changes, the level of development in formula on ehas kinda reached a threshold? I mean how much smaller and lighter can engines get? Only so much power can come from these engines without resorting to turbos. Aerodynamics seem to be reaching a threshold too. All the teams seem to be running the same cars, which seems to point to the direction that aerodynamics has reached a certain limit. Other areas such as suspension design, minimal weight (how frickin light can they get?)downforce, electronics and so on seem to be reaching this developmental threshold.

Without rule changes...forget that, without DESIGN FREEDOM, formula one will become boring to watch and boring to those who like to follow changes.

does anyone agree that there are only four distinct car shape in formula one.

1-MacLaren
2-Ferrari
3-Jordan
4-Willims

[Jhope]

Just to point out, I am no engineer, and only learn things from my dad who is a certified engineer. So before I get critisized, please understand my situation

thanx

[desmo]

I agree totally. F1 is evolving into open wheel NASCAR on road tracks. Which is the plan, I guess.

[Jhope]

Formula One used to be so exciting. The days when anyone could pass anyone. were the days that drew viewers to the edge of their seats. I feel sorry for the people who started watching after Senna's passing. They do not know what true formula one racing is. All they know, is what a feul strategy is, and who are the two best teams. It's becoming really sad, and I for one cannot satand CART races.

Anyways, how do small voices like us make a difference?

[desmo]

Maybe I'm being a tad cynical, but I don't think we fans can. The FIA is so insulated from the fan base, they aren't going to take any ideas seriously unless they are allied with deep pockets. Money talks; we merely listen.

[Jhope]

Unfourtunatly, this is what i was afraid of. We as a fan base have no cash, then the FIA(sco) will not hear our little voices. They say they hear our demands, but that is B.S as far as I am and you are and everyone else is concerned.

[Yelnats]

Jhope, I have taken a rather different view than you and it comes from watching F1 for almost 40 years. It goes something like this.

As long as F1 remains the top forum for the best drivers in the world it will hold my interest. The process of reducing the differences between cars and teams has continued for fifty years and ultimatly it will ascend (or decend?) to a level where the race will be run at speeds relative to the qualifying positions and passing will become obsolete except where errors, be they mechanical or human, intervene.

I still remain facinated by the men who can control these machines and drive them so close to the limits of perfection that their driving at times can become machine-like. That is until reality intrudes as it did when both Micheal and Villeneuve hit the wall in Montreal or when Hakkinnen missed the gear at Monza and shed tears in front of hundreds of millions.

This is where tha drama lies now and I accept it as the core of F1 racing that trancends the limitations of the medium, and hopefully always will. When those men line up on the starting grid, the same emotions and courage are displayed now as it did fifty years ago, and the overwhelming Political Correcteness (safety regulations) that has sapped much of the on track action from the sport has not touched the core of the game once called Gran Prix racing.

[CVAndrw]

Yelnats- amen to all that. You saved me a lot of typing. About all I can add is that anyone who doesn’t have access to qualifying coverage should try to find a way; it’s something I was certainly deprived of until a few years ago and it merely confirmed what I’ve always known were the real reasons behind my obsessive lust for F1. It’s not about creating a spec series for the sake of creating entertainment, it’s about the fastest drivers in the fastest cars on earth demonstrating their superiority, and always has been and will be (déjà vu- I think I just nattered on about this on another thread). Senna, Schumacher and perhaps now even Hakkinen are on a different plane from us mere mortals, and I’m glad I’m able to watch them prove it, even if their pursuers don’t get to perform a lot of meaningless passing stunts. You notice, as in France last year, that people such as Mika will always find a way to do what's neccesary, regardless of silly, restrictive overegulation.

[Jhope]

Look, i have been getting qualifying coverage for the longest time here, and i do realize that the major part of the drama has switched from the race itself, to the qualification periods over the last three or four seasons. I find this absurd. I like to watch people dice it out for a while, a race, as well as the ocasional quick lap here and there. But the major reason I like racing, is for RACING itself. but hakkinen and shumacher can never ever be compared to the senna's and prost's of yeteryears. they proved that a simple human is capable of bringing a machine so close to the brink, and then save it enough to not go over. All this while dicing it out with other driver's. I'm sorry if i offend anyone by saying i prefer racing over qulifying, but the drivers are payed to race and win, not to go quickest. What we see today, is a sport that is in a pathetic state compared to older times. half these driver's that are here today, would surely sh!t their pants in a 1985 turbo powered car. In my eye's, there are only two real driver's in formula one willing to risk it ALL for the taste of victory. these two divers an Jaques Villeneuve and Micheal Shumacher. No one is faster, no one has more natural ability, no one is willing to take risks as much as these two. I hate shumacher in real life, but i give credit where credit is due. He is one hell of a driver. The only other drivers i see that even comes close to these guy's is Ralf or Salo. Mika, David, Heinz, Eddie, Johnny, Pedro are just lucky to be in the right places at the right times. They have machinery that woks for them. Lat year, jaques putin some performences that were beyond the cars limits. On that, i'll reming you of San Marino qulifying, as well as Barcelona where he race two Ferraris.

Thank YOu

[CVAndrw]

“The drivers are paid to race and win, not to go quickest.”

I’m sorry- what??????

I don’t want to be insulting, but in all fairness, don’t you see that the end result of this line of thinking is NASCAR? There are already plenty of spec series with an emphasis on ensuring driver-to-driver racing at all cost by whatever artificial means are required. But that’s never been the point of F1, which IS about being the fastest. Sure, currently F1 is dominated by two teams and two drivers. Why does that make today’s “pathetic state” any different than the good old days? You mention 1985- who else was winning besides Prost and Lauda? (By the way, today’s V10s are pretty close to the turbos in race trim horsepower. The legendary 1300 bhp monsters were primarily qualifying hand grenades, and Jean Alesi would’ve loved them.) Throughout the 1.5 liter formula, who besides Dan Gurney (and, of course, the fragility of the Lotuses Chapman gave him) gave Jim Clark anything to worry about? In the preceding decade, was anyone really on the level of Fangio and Moss?

So I’m sorry, but I don’t really see your point. Has not the ultimate goal of all the greats been to intimidate the opposition by sheer speed, and then go on and win at the slowest speed possible? I believe that the only time F1’s been in a “pathetic state” was during the FOCA/FISA war, when a CART/IRL style debacle seemed a real possibility. I see nothing unnatural or immoral about two drivers and two teams wholly dominating the others- it’s always been that way. Remember the Mercedes W125 and the Auto Union?

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, just imagine if Dan had had a Climax as good as the ones they gave Jimmy - what would have happened then?

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