73 replies to this topic

[jonpollak]

"JACKIE STEWART" documentary on SKY
Don't know if any of you have seen it yet but it runs all week on Sky Documentary Channel (ch277 on your Sky satellite)
https://www.sky.com/...cd-8fbedc22636d

My initial thought was "Hello, this is Saul Bass' office, we'd like our GrandPrix main titles back please."
But in actual fact it's a nice tip of the cap to this style of early opticals that defined the 60's.

Sounds like I'm shilling for Sky, doesn't it?
Not intentional I assure you.

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 15 January 2023 - 01:29.

[jonpollak]

Helen looks AMAZING in this fillm.

Jp

[fifi]

think ill give this a watch later on

[Gilles126c]

Recorded so will watch at some point, remember seeing a Stewart doc before so guess it will be pretty much the same.

[jonpollak]

Nope.. it’s way better
This one is by far the best racing documentary I’ve ever seen.

You’ll be impressed by the footage they gathered alone.
Never mind how incredible Helen is in this film.
Beyond Gorgeous !

Jp

[Gilles126c]

Sure Francois looked good as well.

[jonpollak]

As Jackie says in this film.

"I have no idea why François is a racing driver. He's WAY too good looking to even contemplate being one"

 

Jp

[Jack-the-Lad]

"JACKIE STEWART" documentary on SKY
Don't know if any of you have seen it yet but it runs all week on Sky Documentary Channel (ch277 on your Sky satellite)
https://www.sky.com/...cd-8fbedc22636d

My initial thought was "Hello, this is Saul Bass' office, we'd like our GrandPrix main titles back please.
But in actual fact it's a nice tip of the cap to this style of early opticals that defined the 60's.

Sounds like I'm shilling for Sky, doesn't it?
Not intentional I assure you.

Jp

Another Saul Bass fan.  He was a genius.

[Stephen W]

I watched this effort yesterday and afterwards did this critique:

 

1. Disjointed race footage; 2. Mixing footage from several races when it was all supposed to be from the one race; 3. Race footage was shown out of sequence and on some occasions was from the following year! 4. the dubbed race commentators where phoney and were nothing like the commentary from the actual race; 5. it reminded me of one of Channel 5 documentaries where they repeat everything after each ad-break.

Overall I would give it 7 out of 10, it could have been so much better.

[Collombin]

I thought the first part was excellent, with plenty of stunning paddock and race footage from 1969 that I had never seen before. Inevitably things became much more familiar after that (eg the lengthy Cevert segment didn't contain anything new), but overall it was a very well made film.

The story of Cevert's message from the grave via a Beethoven sonata was somewhat strangely handled in that the story was only half told before Helen refused to elaborate, so in that sense I wonder why they bothered mentioning it at all. The full story is in Jackie's autobiography.

I think some mixing of footage across races and years is somewhat inevitable when only a limited amount is available, but the important thing is that at no point did I feel like we were being deliberately conned or misled. The only pedantry point that rankled was very minor - footage from Nurburgring (which came from the abandoned Steve McQueen film I think) being labelled as Spa.

I am not sure I would necessarily feel a need to watch this again, but I am glad I saw it. Far better than most things on telly this Christmas anyway!

Edited by Collombin, 01 January 2023 - 09:29.

[Gary C]

They should have contacted me in regard footage! I could have supplied them with some unseen stuff.

[Richard Jenkins]

I've just watched it and to be honest, I'm not sure it's particularly aimed at the TNF market. I thought Flying Scot was a better documentary but this is arguably a better-made film - and I use the word film deliberately.
This wasn't a talking head type of documentary. I thought it was effectively a tribute by Mark to his parents.
The Nurburgring segment labelled as Spa was disappointing as Mark is better than that as was the fact Terry Coleman's name was spelt wrong in the credits.
But what was a really nice - and typical - JYS touch was listing the Tyrrell members between 1969-1973 that worked on his car or with him, whether alive or dead, in the final credits.
It's a perfect introduction to JYS for a new audience, the Sky audience, or rather the Drive to Survive audience, who it's likely more aimed at.
If you watch it with a pedants head on, it will frustrate, but if you watch it as a new documentary film on motor racing, then it's worth the time. I didn't find out anything new, but I truth, I wasn't expecting to.

Edited by Richard Jenkins, 02 January 2023 - 07:08.

[JohnH]

I enjoyed this , watched it on You Tube.

[john aston]

It's a perfect introduction to JYS for a new audience, the Sky audience, or rather the Drive to Survive audience, who it's likely more aimed at.
If you watch it with a pedants head on, it will frustrate, but if you watch it as a new documentary film on motor racing, then it's worth the time. I didn't find out anything new, but I truth, I wasn't expecting to.

Simply because he survived , JYS tends to be judged by a younger audience . on his more recent past , not all of which is judged favourably - such as his support for Grands Prix held in some pretty shabby countries .Some credit was given by a younger chap I was discussing JYS' career with for his charitable work on dementia,  but what really shocked me was the chap's  total unawareness of how JYS almost single- handedly took on the likes of the establishment - and DSJ - and fought for greater safety. That is his legacy - as well as being a sublimely talented driver whose achievements (like Alain Prost's) are often overlooked in favour of less successful , but more flamboyant drivers.    

Edited by john aston, 02 January 2023 - 07:29.

[Glengavel]

I enjoyed this , watched it on You Tube.

 

Thanks for the heads-up, hope it'll stay up long enough for me to watch it!

[Doug Nye]

Having not seen the documentary in question - nor in truth particularly feeling the need to see it - Jackie's real legacy will surely be, as John comments above, his massive commitment to improving racing safety.  

 

That he could do so from a position of real strength - having escaped the bullet in his Spa accident, having then proved his courage and capability combined in winning the 1968 German GP (for example) despite mist, rain and a seriously contaminated track surface, and all with one wrist in plaster - contradicted inevitable charges of being a wimp, weedy, cowardly and worse.  

 

I think I have previously told the story here of showing Jackie photos of himself and Jimmy Clark weaving their way around Longford - trees, bushes, stout farm fences, the hefty timber bridge parapets - and him just studying them silently for some moments, before looking up and saying "Yes, well - we didn't realise what we were doing then, did we?".

 

He risked his own stature and reputation in helping to improve the survival chances not just of himself, but of all competitors.  That what followed changed the face of motor sport not entirely impressively...well, that's another matter.  But once the genie is out of the bottle...the best intentions surrounding its release - and the ramifications of nobody having done so - tend to be forgotten.

 

DCN

[absinthedude]

I watched it via a trip on the high seas....

 

Yes it was pretty good, though likely we are not the intended audience. I noted there was nothing about Stewart Grand Prix and really very little after his racing career ended. But that's OK because most regular Sky F1 viewers know about his more recent activities. This documentary really gave an impression of how he was as young person and as a driver. The footage has been really well restored too. 

 

Fully agree that in addition to a stellar racing career his real legacy is in motorsport safety. He's before my time but I learned much of what was presented in this documentary many years ago. However it was still a good watch. I did wonder what someone, say 15 years old and recently into F1 might make of it. I am unsure if they'd watch it all the way through, but if they did it would have taught them a lot. 

[Roger Clark]

I'm not going to argue that his work on safety was not Jackie Stewart's main legacy but there are other achievements that should be noted.

 

I believe he was the first Grand Prix driver to realise and fully exploit the commercial possibilities of his position.  Moss did, but Stewart took it to a completely different level,  Signing with the Mark McCormack organisation was a landmark.  Only Bernie Ecclestone exceeds his influence in the development of Grand Prix racing as a commercial endeavour,

 

His professionalism and dedication meant that he was better prepared and often had an advantage over his rivals even if they were faster than he was.  Rindt and Peterson may have been faster than he was but Stewart knew how to win races and championships.  Stewart always raced for the championship; great drivers before him aimed to do the best they could in individual races and let the championship take care of itself.  Fangio would probably have been 1957 World Champion even if he had finished third in Germany.  Stewart could have approached Fangio's achievement but would he have tried?  Most drivers since the 1970s have followed Stewart's lead.

 

I believe that Jackie Stewart has no rival as the most influential Grand Prix driver of any era, as well as being one of the best.

[Derwent Motorsport]

And of course he overcame dyslexia to become an accomplished public speaker, although his writing style in his autobiography grated with me, rather sycophantic at times. 

[Charlieman]

I believe he was the first Grand Prix driver to realise and fully exploit the commercial possibilities of his position.  Moss did, but Stewart took it to a completely different level,  Signing with the Mark McCormack organisation was a landmark.  Only Bernie Ecclestone exceeds his influence in the development of Grand Prix racing as a commercial endeavour,

Interestingly Stewart's friend Jochen Rindt was guided by Bernie Ecclestone.

[Sterzo]

Stewart's greatest legacy? The fact that it's possible to argue the case for several alternatives is telling in itself. A great achiever.

 

It's slightly embarrassing to admit to having been one of the great unwashed who were annoyed by his safety campaign. My objection was that the target was wrong: circuits rather than the cars themselves. I still hold that view, though perhaps no longer with the certainty of youth.

[Dunc]

I watched it last night and quite enjoyed it.

 

The collection of footage is very impressive and I really enjoyed some of the interview recordings. There are some pedantic issues with it but you could say the same about any documentary.

 

I thought the decision to focus on his WDC years made it quite refreshing. JYS is from way before my time but I already knew a lot about him through reading his autobiography and having watched films like 'Weekend of a Champion' and 'One by One'. He has quite a legacy but he wouldn't have that legacy had he not been the best driver of his era and this film really focussed on him as that driver, which is weirdly the part of his career that seems to be forgotten the most given everything else he has managed to achieve in his life.

 

I didn't get anything new out of the sections on the races and championships but the parts on his lifestyle as a husband, father, celebrity and fashion icon gave me a bit more of an idea of the strain of his celebrity than I had seen before. The way they blended in Helen Stewart's contributions was also very well done.

 

All in all, definitely worth a watch and, for those new to F1 history, a great introduction to one of the sport's greatest icons.

[E1pix]

Drop us a link here please JohnH
Thanks,
Jp

The entire work is nothing short of brilliant in my opinion:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=PV8mzMxvWHI

[john aston]

I enjoyed it hugely , it exceeded my expectations by some margin. Nice  to see some Can Am footage too. It was a film long on images , including some split screen stuff a la Grand Prix,  but it was rather shorter  on a clear narrative thread . But the period footage is wonderful 

[jonpollak]

The entire work is nothing short of brilliant in my opinion:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=PV8mzMxvWHI

Ahh..
Thank you Eric.
I'm going to put that link in the OP if that's all right.

Great to see some of you letting the pedantry go and just having it wash over you like an unfettered child.
That's what I do to enjoy these types of things.


Also..

We in the racing community are rather "Lucky" to have another fine documentary arrive in our laps at the same time.

As winter nights draw in and with a warming drink in hand, tonight I will start the long laboured over biopic of Bernie Ecclestone by Mandish Pandey. This film, shot over the 2 years of the pandemic, has been farmed out to yet another of these random streaming services which I shall not sign up to either. I think it's Discovery+ ???

Anyway, I am indeed "Lucky" as a good friend has sent me the complete film in 8 episodes !!!
https://www.luckytvseries.com/

I've been told that Bernie talks straight into the camera and it appears that you can see directly into his soul.

I'll bet Mandish had to keep telling Bernie....."LOOK INTO THE CAMERA . DAMNIT BERNIE, STRAIGHT AHEAD !!! "


I DO hope there is a way for you all to see it.
Looks like another good one !!

Jp

EDIT: If the Grandee's here feel this deserves its own thread 'PLEASE Mr. Mod, cut and paste my post into a new topic.'

Edited by jonpollak, 04 January 2023 - 22:52.

[Collombin]

Great to see some of you letting the pedantry go and just having it wash over you like an unfettered child

Letting pedantry go on TNF? 😁

However, as a clever ploy to make an active posting return irresistible to Mr Ferner, I approve wholeheartedly.

[jonpollak]

We love you EB.

Jp

[Stephen W]

Great to see some of you letting the pedantry go and just having it wash over you like an unfettered child.
That's what I do to enjoy these types of things.


Jp
 

 

Good to see the use of irony hasn't fallen by the wayside.

[BRG]

I've been told that Bernie talks straight into the camera and it appears that you can see directly into his soul.

I'll bet Mandish had to keep telling Bernie....."LOOK INTO THE CAMERA . DAMNIT BERNIE, STRAIGHT AHEAD !!! "

 

According to the write-up in the latest 'Motor Sport' mag, they used some gizmo called an Interrotron which somehow shows the interviewer's face so that the interviewee does indeed look at the camera.

[rl1856]

Watched it last night with my wife.  She had a visible reaction when Francois Cevert was on screen.....   Then she looked up his history, and unfortunately read about Watkins Glen.   

 

I thought it was well done, with a simple narrative.  He had to work harder than everyone else because of his (undiagnosed) Dyslexia, and that carried over to how he approached driving.

 

What surprised me is that the documentary did not mention his success in competitive Shooting.  Stewart credits his shooting experience with preparing him for racing at the top level.  He found something he was good at, which gave him pride and a sense of self worth.  He understood competition, and he interacted with people coming from more sophisticated backgrounds.  He was not naïve when his GP star began to ascend and he believes he was better prepared because of his past experience.  

 

We can quibble about the mixing of footage from different years, but some of the images were wonderful to see on my large screen TV.

 

In the present, Stewart can come across as an irascible critic who fails to appreciate the current state of the sport.  The problem is he does understand, all too well.  Unfortunately fans who were born a generation after he retired fail to appreciate just how good he was on track, and what he accomplished off of the track.

 

In the US, we tended to see him as the "Wee Scot Leprechaun" with a thick accent, who was THE racing commentator for US broadcasts of important races over about a 20yr period.  We were given some feel for who he was, and his insights were useful.  We occasionally got to see him testing current racing cars.  This is not meant to diminish him in any way, just to point out how he was presented and viewed in the US.

[Colbul1]

I believe much of the Francois Cevert content in the JYS documentary came from the 1975 film documentary 'The Quick and the Dead'.  If you can get beyond the morbid title it is available to watch on Amazon Prime and YouTube and is watchable in a blunter, 70s fashion.

 

I was unaware of the Bernie series, sadly I do not have multiple streaming services and so do not have Paramount+.  Hopefully Sky will pick it up, or they will release it on Amazon down the line.

[BRG]

I am not usually keen on motor racing documentaries.  But I watched this one and thought it was pretty good.  It had a nice period feel with the 'Grand Prix' style multi screen stuff. And I liked the period style WDC points displays.

 

Could have lived without the phony trackside commentary.  That could have been done more convincingly with simple captions.

[E1pix]

Being that they used a clip of Santana’s “Soul Sacrifice” early in the film, that’s probably where the split-screen idea came from. Party On, Wayne.

Watched it again last night. This one’ll see a dozen viewings before I tire of it.

And Yes, “The Quick and the Dead” is back on YouTube, first time in years. The opening clip of the corner marshal’s and Tom Pryce’s deaths is still seriously haunting...

[davidbuckden]

I'm looking forward to seeing this - I'm up for anything celebrating JYS. One of the compensations for now being over seventy is that I saw him at his peak.  I imagine that for younger people his consummate brilliance will not be so obvious, given that far less was recorded visually back then.  But 'live' in the Matra, or Tyrrell - and indeed in the 701 and T260 -  his composure in the car - and of the car - was just magical. The documentary Weekend of a Champion remains my favourite motorsport content film. Out of the car I was so pleased that he retained his dignity against the criticisms of the imbecilic Jenkinson and that he maintained a personal 'brand' of great quality, being truly innovative and inspirational in this regard.

[pacificquay]

In the present, Stewart can come across as an irascible critic who fails to appreciate the current state of the sport. 

Fundamentally disagree with this take.

 

I spoke to Jackie a few months ago and he was very clear he thinks motorsport now is much better than in his day and remains thoroughly passionate about it.

[jonpollak]

As Jackie says...It's all about looking forward.

 

I agree with davidbuckden though... "Do Look Back"

 

Yet another DocuDrama coming in hot and fast on Hugh Toob, these Winter documentaries, loving it !!

Here's Williams

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 06 January 2023 - 00:35.

[PLAYLIFE]

Qatar Airways were showing this last September, I enjoyed it, especially footage I had not previously seen.

[Dunc]

In the present, Stewart can come across as an irascible critic who fails to appreciate the current state of the sport.  The problem is he does understand, all too well.  Unfortunately fans who were born a generation after he retired fail to appreciate just how good he was on track, and what he accomplished off of the track.

 

In the US, we tended to see him as the "Wee Scot Leprechaun" with a thick accent, who was THE racing commentator for US broadcasts of important races over about a 20yr period.  We were given some feel for who he was, and his insights were useful.  We occasionally got to see him testing current racing cars.  This is not meant to diminish him in any way, just to point out how he was presented and viewed in the US.

 

I think this is a pretty good summing up. JYS is kind of a victim of his own success in that he planned so well for his retirement that he's probably better-known now for what he did after racing than he is for his time in F1! I liked that the documentary focussed on his time as a racing driver because it's really what is missing from a lot of content about JYS, even his own autobiography doesn't really talk that much about it.

 

One thing I was surprised at was the amount of time spoken about the way JYS looked - his haircut, clothes etc. He obviously has a reputation as a snazzy dresser - last summer I walked past him in Edinburgh and was struck by how well turned-out he was - but I didn't realise he was a full-on fashionista at one point. While the outfits he had on in the archive footage are obviously very dated some still look quite stylish while others look like the sort of thing Austin Powers would say 'groovy baby' too. Did I read too much into this or was he really a massive style icon?

[Sterzo]

One of the things to say about Jackie Stewart's autobiography is that he couldn't read it. I'll re-read my words three times before clicking "Post." He must have dictated his book and had it read back to him, a most cumbersome process which doesn't lend itself to perfection, or to checking the balance between various elements of the story.

 

Stewart certainly wasn't seen as a style icon by anyone I knew. (For what it's worth, I lived in walking distance of the King's Road Chelsea the year he joined BRM - and I wasn't a style icon either). The period was characterised by lots of talk about the revolutionary advance of youth, with its music and fashion, and the gulf to older generations and "the establishment". The point about Stewart, methinks, is that he was in the "establishment" motor racing world (priest blessing your racing car, anyone?) but projecting an incongruous pop star image. Most contemporary comment about his appearance came from people with reservations rather than admiration.

 

Final random comment: Stewart, like Clark and Schumacher, was famed for his smoothness. But if you watched any of those through a fast bend, you could detect something akin to a vibration of the car. Multiple, minuscule corrections applied at superhuman speed.

[Doug Nye]

JYS's long locks and what to many came across as an hilarious taste in wacky clothes only really manifested itself after his involvement with the McCormack organisation took grip, and he spent increasing time with the likes of Roman Polanski and general Hollywood and showbiz glitterati.  The contemporary transformation in Helen was as marked but in her case - to us - brought out this somewhat reserved but extremely pleasant her innate beauty.

 

I am therefore not sure if 'fashion icon' would be quite the correct term for Jackie, in that as far as I know he really followed where others led (or advised, or directed).  But I guess that's the case with most up-front 'icons'?  Happily, I have plainly never ever been qualified to comment upon such matters - and today even less so...  

 

DCN

[john aston]

He wasn't exactly a counter cultural figure , although some of  his sartorial props might have given that impression to some . His friendship with George Harrison** was, I'd suggest ,borne out of their being neighbours in Switzerland rather than a shared interest in mysticism . I think  that JYS , like most of his peers , then and now, was at least small 'c' conservative , if not  big C .  But  I dare say that to the likes of the heroically uncool DSJ , JYS was a subversive hippy radical but behind the giant shades was a man who I'd wager was a stranger to the Grateful Dead (et al ) . 

 

**A few years ago I interviewed Paul Stewart  at his home . A lovely man  , completely without any 'side'. As we were sitting down ,I noticed the plectrums   on the coffee table and the guitar (a Martin I think ). I said, tongue half way in cheek - "Don't tell me , George Harrison taught you to play ?"  .Cue big smile - " Well , actually he did just that " 

[Glengavel]

Jackie's Desert Island Discs (from 1986). You can judge his 'hipness' (or not).

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rammes/p009mmjx

 

I haven't listened to it so I don't know what the context is regarding his choices. Of the five 'contemporary' songs, there are three of them I wouldn't give house room.

 

DISCS

The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards - Amazing Grace

The Beatles - Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Stevie Wonder - I Just Called To Say I Love You

Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody

Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie - We Are The World

Ludwig van Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor, Op. 13 'Pathétique'

The Beatles - All You Need Is Love

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Piano Sonata in C major

 

BOOK CHOICE

Guinness Book of Records

 

LUXURY CHOICE

Blank book and a pen

[10kDA]

 

Jackie's Desert Island Discs (from 1986). You can judge his 'hipness' (or not).

 

LUXURY CHOICE

Blank book and a pen

 

Interesting choice of a blank book and a pen. Stewart's dyslexia has been reported time and time again, but I don't recall seeing anything about him addressing the issue. I have not read Stewart's autobiography so I don't know if it contains anything along those lines. Dyslexia can be a matter of degree. Has he been able to deal with his own dyslexia?

[rl1856]

"I think that JYS , like most of his peers , then and now, was at least small 'c' conservative , if not big C . But I dare say that to the likes of the heroically uncool DSJ , JYS was a subversive hippy radical but behind the giant shades was a man who I'd wager was a stranger to the Grateful Dead (et al ) .

**A few years ago I interviewed Paul Stewart at his home . A lovely man , completely without any 'side'. As we were sitting down ,I noticed the plectrums on the coffee table and the guitar (a Martin I think ). I said, tongue half way in cheek - "Don't tell me , George Harrison taught you to play ?" .Cue big smile - " Well , actually he did just that "

JA- very incisive comment. Stewart freely admits that Her Majesty's Tax Rates caused him to move to Switzerland which at least points to a conservative view of the debate regarding personal earnings vs taxation. However he pointedly advocated for the governing body of F1/GP to be more proactive in creating a safer racing environment, which implies a desire for a collective entity to exert more control.

Your anecdote regarding Paul is priceless.

[rl1856]

Fundamentally disagree with this take.

 

I spoke to Jackie a few months ago and he was very clear he thinks motorsport now is much better than in his day and remains thoroughly passionate about it.

 

Fact and fiction are often very different.  You present a fact based upon personal experience.  However the general perception of him among much younger critics/fans is that he is out of touch.   I agree with you b/t/w....

[BRG]

 

Jackie's Desert Island Discs (from 1986). You can judge his 'hipness' (or not).

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...rammes/p009mmjx

 

I haven't listened to it so I don't know what the context is regarding his choices. Of the five 'contemporary' songs, there are three of them I wouldn't give house room.

 

DISCS

The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards - Amazing Grace

The Beatles - Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Stevie Wonder - I Just Called To Say I Love You

Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody

Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie - We Are The World

Ludwig van Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor, Op. 13 'Pathétique'

The Beatles - All You Need Is Love

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Piano Sonata in C major

 

BOOK CHOICE

Guinness Book of Records

 

LUXURY CHOICE

Blank book and a pen

 

Back in 1986, a guest's 'choices' of music of Desert Island Discs invariably seemed to include several classical pieces, probably whether they wanted them or not.  I don't think anyone ever got away with a full list of Grateful Dead, Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart after the BBC's good taste censors had their say  

 

As for the book and writing equipment, that is just part of his then ongoing cover-up of his inability to read or write prior to diagnosis of his severe dyslexia

 

Fact and fiction are often very different.  You present a fact based upon personal experience.  However the general perception of him among much younger critics/fans is that he is out of touch.   I agree with you b/t/w....

I think this shows that the much younger critics/fans are the ones that were out of touch.  JYS was a fixture in and around racing for decades and must have been infinitely better placed to comment than his detractors.

[Collombin]

As for the book and writing equipment, that is just part of his then ongoing cover-up of his inability to read or write prior to diagnosis of his severe dyslexia

I think that was after the diagnosis, although perhaps he wasn't ready to be open about it at that stage. He did speak about it in his edition of Maestro in 1984 (saying he had found out a couple of years earlier) but called it a learning disorder rather than specifically naming dyslexia.

[jonpollak]

I am therefore not sure if 'fashion icon' would be quite the correct term for Jackie..... 
 
DCN

But for Helen it sure was Doug.
 
My wife was friends with Jean Shrimpton and when we stayed at her place in Penzance I would spend the evenings in the drawing room glancing at the 50 or so of her photo books only to find about 30 pictures of Helen in one of them. I asked Jean about them and she said David LOVED photographing Helen as she had that great style and held herself so beautifully. a real fashion plate . I'll always remember Jean saying "If she hadn't had to traipse around after Jackie she'd have surely been in the magazines as well."
 
Jp

[Henk Vasmel]

But for Helen it sure was Doug.
 

The case of the missing comma that almost makes our friend DCN a fashion icon. But for Helen of course.

[jonpollak]

Well spotted Henk.

Would you believe I did it on porpoise?

Jp