32 replies to this topic

[Derwent Motorsport]

I was doing some research on this subject for an article and came across this old thread on here from 2002.  Fortunately attitudes have changed in 20 years.   

 

Homosexual drivers? (merged) - Page 5 - TNF's Archive - The Autosport Forums

[GMiranda]

I think this doesn't need to be a taboo unless we fall into speculation.

 

In F1, I remember immediately two: Lella Lombardi was a lesbian with a lifelong partner who supported her throughout her career. Nicha Cabral came out as bisexual, and he mentions it in his book; it was already widely known in the Portuguese racing scene, but it's on his biography with his permission.

Edited by GMiranda, 04 October 2023 - 19:36.

[pacificquay]

That 2002 thread is pretty shocking in terms of the things people felt happy to say.

 

Thankfully attitudes are a bit more enlightened now.

 

On the topic, yes there are many, but it’s up to them to be out rather than people speculating here.

[E1pix]

The problem with the current era is people wanting to be open, then we see a bunch of rules attached from a segment telling everyone else how to think, what is proper, who is right, what is wrong — and it’s gotten so ridiculous as to make prejudices actually grow worse.

Discussing this topic is no different than who’s dating who that we see sprawled every day on magazine covers, on the web, *everywhere*. But I do agree it’s not fair to speculate on one’s preference unless they do something to encourage people doing that.

If people all want to be treated the same, than how’s about letting the rest of us treat people the same? Best way to do that is keeping your private business private, not sticking it in everyone’s faces and then demanding privacy and inclusion.

A late friend was almost a twin sister to me and it took her five years to be open about her preference. While I found it sad she couldn’t admit it, she said it was the best way to not be prejudiced upon and I think she was right.

Edit: Clarifying, none of this is directed at gay people, it’s their decision and I respect them either way. But rather I am increasingly irked at those taking on the mantle of “social protection” of every danged thing that’s outside of their reality or even their personal experience.

Example, I’ve asked probably 50 Native Americans if they mind being called “Indians,” and not one has said “Yes,” but rather mostly say “We ARE Indians!”

Yet some non-Natives have told me directly “I can’t believe you have ‘Indian ruins’ on your photo.”

Seems to me we have bigger things that justify actual worry.

Edited by E1pix, 05 October 2023 - 13:33.

[Michael Ferner]

The thing is, culture warriors always say, "we have bigger things to worry about", but it's only them who actually worry about the things they claim "they can no longer say", but go on to say anyway. Making a big problem out of nothing, is that your goal?

[E1pix]

In recent years, Michael, hate crimes are through the roof over here.

So it *is* a time of social angst in the States, and it’s exacerbated in everything being so public and constant in media that it’s having the *exact opposite* effect.

What I eluded to was a massive increase of in-fighting amongst those of prior commonality. I said too much already in knowing nothing I’d say would go without the exact misinterpretation that concerns me.

[Michael Ferner]

I'm sorry, my post sounds more agressive than necessary, but the point still stands: why making a big thing out of nothing? It's the evil that benefits those who are out to destroy society, we shouldn't be playing their game.

[10kDA]

What difference does it make? I doubt that a driver's own sexuality is anywhere on their personal radar while trying to outbrake somebody at the end of a half-mile straight. Does their sexuality have a bearing on whether or not they make the pass? "Yes" or "no", it's nobody else's business.

[sabrejet]

I think it's a valid topic: I'd be interested to know of instances where a driver's sexuality precluded a contract for example. In the same way that the impressive Willy T Ribbs documentary highlighted how difficult it was for a black driver to break into the top levels of the sport, the same would be the case for drivers whose sexuality didn't skew with the attitudes of the time.

[Steve99]

This is interesting. I recall the story of a certain Ayrton Senna Da Silva arriving in Europe with a 'friend' known as 'Junior'- a handsome young man - who was officially his 'helmet polisher...' When success arrived, Senna was 'advised' to ditch Junior, and duly did. If anyone can direct me to where I read this story - be it true or otherwise - I'd apprecate it.

[rl1856]

Why are we trying to divide drivers into little sub groups ?  Either someone can drive or they can not.    If one cares to learn from current events, it should be quickly evident that such tactics often lead to more rancor and more division.

[B Squared]

I liked the days of my youth when finding anybody my age that liked racing was nearly impossible. My Dad's friends were the source for me learning about the sport. When you did meet somebody that was interested in racing, it didn't matter if it was cars, boats, bikes, or aircraft. They liked racing and that's all that mattered. Unending criticism and tribalism seems to be the norm these days.

[sabrejet]

Curious that we seem obsessed with finding reasons NOT to discuss this when the topic of racism in sport (and lessons we learnt from it) is totally acceptable. Documentaries like "Uppity" are rightly lauded, so why not a similar approach regarding sexuality? It obviously has been an issue in the past, and ignorance of it would seem tantamount to denial. Neither approach is one that would would learn from. 

[Sterzo]

Curious that we seem obsessed with finding reasons NOT to discuss this when the topic of racism in sport (and lessons we learnt from it) is totally acceptable. Documentaries like "Uppity" are rightly lauded, so why not a similar approach regarding sexuality? It obviously has been an issue in the past, and ignorance of it would seem tantamount to denial. Neither approach is one that would would learn from. 

Stories of racing people being discriminated against, or passed over because of prejudice, would indeed constitute a discussion subject. There must have been such events, but until the recipients of that treatment feel comfortable to reveal it, we'll remain unaware. Meanwhile we are limited to "so and so was gay" and "so and so might have been", which is maybe a less worthy topic.

[10kDA]

Unless consent is given by the individuals being discussed, it's not possible to know if they consider their inclusion in the topic to be offensive. Such a discussion may be OK for some of them but unacceptably intrusive for others. Therefore, I won't go there, out of respect and not denial nor avoidance.

[alansart]

Not a driver as such but an interesting article by Matt Bishop about Ron Dennis (who isn't gay) but it covers the subject.

https://www.motorspo...eal-ron-dennis/

[Michael Ferner]

Great article, Alan. Thanks for posting!

[flatlandsman]

I see no issue whatsoever with it being discussed, it is EXACTLY the same as gender, race or anything else. I would imagine there are countess gay race drivers out there, some are open about it,some are not, it matters not a damn. 

Edited by flatlandsman, 08 October 2023 - 13:48.

[AllanL]

Only on TNF, reading through the other post on a slow weekend, I find that it veers into a lengthy discussion on the demise of FPA while the suggestion of a current forum poster that most of the ewes on Anglesey may be lesbians went without comment.....

[E1pix]

I can’t believe I just killed an hour reading the other thread — just to understand what you were talking about.

My bad, but I still don’t understand your comment.

[AllanL]

I can’t believe I just killed an hour reading the other thread — just to understand what you were talking about.

My bad, but I still don’t understand your comment.

My apologies, the rain is obviously more damaging to my remaining braincells than I thought.

 

The feeble reference was to the following:

 

"Barry Boor

• 

Posted 17 October 2006 - 08:47

Quote

I just spent the last twelve years living on an island where most of the women are gay

That wouldn't be Anglesey, would it?  "

 

....and with that I will shuffle off and hide until spring returns.

Edited by AllanL, 08 October 2023 - 22:11.

[brucemoxon]

Quote

I just spent the last twelve years living on an island where most of the women are gay


Lesbos?

 

 

 

BRM (seeing himself out)

Actually, no, I'll stick for a minute. I'm in a rainbow family. A daughter and a cousin or two are on the LGBTI etc spectrum. One of my best rallying friends is a trans woman. My best mate growing up came out as a trans woman too. 

Someone's sexual preference should only be an issue if you're about to have sex with them. And all this talk I think is pretty salacious. I can almost hear the giggling. 



BRM (Again). 

Quote

I just spent the last twelve years living on an island where most of the women are gay

[E1pix]

Except nobody said “Lesbos” nor did anything above elude to “giggling.”

If anyone’s being treated unfairly, it’s the respected forum member pointing out a town apparently known for having gay women — 21 years ago. The comment was not made by Barry Boor as errantly implied above. Was it the emoji that he did use in reply, the one that could be interpreted in several ways?

We seem to be calling out people that did nothing, and I knew this thread would become what it has.

Edit: To be fair, here’s the full comment:
“I just spent the last twelve years living on an island where most of the women are gay and gay men are totally open about it (So far as I knew). Perhaps I am not 'tuned in' to current thinking 'on the mainland'. It shouldn't be an issue, anymore than what was his background, or what gear ratio was he using.”

I simply don’t see the issue in that unless choosing to take issue with it. Why did you both edit that to further your point, LarryL (Whoops, meant AllanL) and Bruce?

Again, a best friend of mine was a gay woman, and one thing she *hated* was the need of some straight men to defend being gay when they’re not in that reality.

So is it now wrong if someone dares say San Francisco is known as a similar place? Seriously, where’s the problem in that, it has been promoted as such for decades, its residents did that, and absolutely nobody else.

My wife is a stroke survivor of massive proportions. Should she be mad when someone comments about “stroking out?” Well, she’s not, and if she could speak fluently she’d tell people to lighten up.

What I eluded to earlier was I don’t see the point in some advertising their differences while demanding being treated the same — especially in certain demonstrations that result in further discrimination against those choosing to stay private. I fail to see how that helps their cause.

With all that, it’s none of anyone’s business when people make the choice to be private, and I wholeheartedly support that. We’re all humans, and that should be our common focus in my view.

Edited by E1pix, 09 October 2023 - 12:38.

[AllanL]

At the risk of labouring even further a feeble quip. Please don't, by the way. A bit of local background for those outside the UK.

 

Anglesey is an island off North Wales. As there are more sheep in Wales than human females, there are many week jokes, from non-Welsh parts of the UK, about Welsh men having romantic interests in the local sheep population. 

 

To get away from this increasingly pointless topic, I once worked with a secretary who had different coloured eyes. Anyone interested in whether any F1 driver has or had Heterochromia?  

 

It cannot be any less of a trivial pursuit topic.

[Michael Ferner]

Helmut Marko?

 

 

[ugh! bad joke!!]

[Doug Nye]

Who's going to speak up for the sheep community, then?

 

 

DCN

[Derwent Motorsport]

Who's going to speak up for the sheep community, then?

 

 

DCN

We have the same issue here in Cumbria.  Mind you the Herdwicks are quite pretty!

[brucemoxon]

Australians make the same accusations of New Zealanders. About the sheep, I mean. 

 

But New Zealand produces many very fine racing and rally drivers. 

 

 

 

 

BRM

[opplock]

Australians make the same accusations of New Zealanders. About the sheep, I mean. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BRM

 

"Sending our drongos to Australia raises the average IQ of both countries", Robert Muldoon. Or words to that effect. Couldn't stand the man but that was brilliant.   

[Collombin]

"Sending our drongos to Australia raises the average IQ of both countries", Robert Muldoon. Or words to that effect. Couldn't stand the man but that was brilliant.

You might be pleased to know he probably borrowed that joke from Will Rogers then, who did the same gag about those who left Oklahoma for California.

[brucemoxon]

"Sending our drongos to Australia raises the average IQ of both countries", Robert Muldoon. Or words to that effect. Couldn't stand the man but that was brilliant.   

Odd, because we tend to view Kiwis as our slightly ******** (sorry, 'developmentally delayed') cousins.

While they really hate us. Especially when there's rugby. 

 

 

 

BRM

[E1pix]

Odd, because we tend to view Kiwis as our slightly ******** (sorry, 'developmentally delayed') cousins.

Pretty salacious, I can almost hear the giggling.

[PCC]

Who's going to speak up for the sheep community, then?

 

 

DCN

They'll be fine. Historically, animal rights advocates have been far more numerous than LGBTQ rights activists.