12 replies to this topic

[byrkus]

As usual, I was looking through www.forix.com website, for I was looking at times, achieved at Indianapolis races 1950- 1960. In 1952, on pole there was the car called Kurtis Kraft-Cummins, and on the side of the car was written with large letters 'CUMMINS DIESEL Special'. So what I'm asking, is: Did that car actually run on Diesel??
And if so, how come, that such an engine was never used again?? (until recently some drivers used VW Golf TDI for rallying) For, if it was fast enough for pole in Indy, who knows; maybe it would be also quick at Monza or Spa...

[FEV]

The main reason for the Cummins Diesel Special (in fact a Cummins powered lay-down roadster built by wizard Frank Kurtis) was that diesel engines were allowed to have 6600cc displacement (against 3000cc for supercharged engines and 4500cc for non s/c).
The Cummins Engine Company (based in Columbus, Indiana) fielded a diesel engined car for the first time at Indy in 1931 : it finished a respectable 13th with Dave Evans at the wheel. They came back in 1934 and 1950 with little success. But in 1952 Kurtis designed them a car (nicknamed the $500,000 racing laboratory !). Freddie Agabashian took the pole, but tire problems (probably due to the heavy weight of the car) caused him early pitstops and he finally retired with turbocharger problems (inlet clogged from debris on the track).

In a way, this car brought many changes to Indy. The engine was a heavy truck 6570cc (401ci) in-line 6 and was fitted with a turbocharger, the first in Indy history (400 hp at 4000rpm, 50hp more than a classic Offenhauser). Frank Kurtis' problem was to package his beast. He laid the engine flat on its side with the crankshaft on the left. Then he brought the driveshaft straight back to a quick-change diff offset in the rear axle. The driver sat on the floor next to the driveshaft. And the whole thing was held together with a tubular space frame. As soon as he started building the car, FK saw that it was a good idea. So he built another one for millionaire Howard Keck : The KK500A. The KK roadsters legend was born and it took another wizard of engineering name Colin Chapman to put an end to its supremacy.

[bpratt]

There was also a Cummins Diesel Special in the 1950 Indy 500: qualified 32nd, finished 29th. Driven by Jimmy Jackson.

The 1952 car was a feature of a film (probably commissioned by Cummins) that shows up on the Legends of Motorsport half hour program on Speedvision.

Brian Pratt

[BertlF]

Slightly OT:

Alfa Romeo announced that it will run a cup competition whithin the German Touring Car Races in 2002 with identical Alfa 156 with the 1.9 JTD engine! All cars are the same (have to be bought from Alfa with sealed engines, electronics etc.) and it will be - according to the TV report - the first competition with just Diesel-powered cars.

Bert

[dmj]

VW won a race or two with diesel-powered Golf in last few years, I think...

[Roger Clark]

I ave a vague memory that when the new Grand Prix formula for 1966 was announced it included a provision for diesel engines, possibly of unlimited capacity. Some cursory research has failed to confirm this, can anybody else say? I know that rotary engines, whether turbine or Wankel were initially allowed unlimited capacity. Presumably this was changed by the time the Lotus 56B came along.

[Don Capps]

Working from my increasingly fragile memory:

Turbine and Wankel (rotary) engines were not given any "displacement" or equivalency coefficients in the original issuance of the new Grand Prix -- ah, F1 -- formula in November 1963 -- it was "to be determined" and left at that. When the formula went into effect, the only things I remember was that there was nothing on these except that they had to meet the other mandates of the formula -- weight and safety requirements. I think that for the 1970 revision, there was an equivalency algorithm for rotary engines and another for turbines.

My mind is blank on the Diesels. I don't think the Diesels were left in the final regs, but I do remember that they were mentioned during the drafting of the 1966 regs.

Also, the reason for the turbo failing in 1952 -- debris being sucked into the intake and damaging the vanes, was due to its placement and not any failure of the turbo itself. Had the turbo been placed higher and adequately protected from FOD, it is entirely possible that Eddie Agabashian could have been a serious contender, despite the early tire problems which were in part due to the heavy fuel load and the weight of the engine package.

Even though the Cummins Roadster was not a success, it was to, as mentioned, lead to a whole new generation of Indy cars.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Don Capps

Also, the reason for the turbo failing in 1952 -- debris being sucked into the intake and damaging the vanes, was due to its placement and not any failure of the turbo itself.

Just like the FIATs in the 1923 Grand Prix de l'ACF?

[cabianca]

While the Kurtis laydown of the Cummings was Frank's idea, I believe the laydown Offy was the idea of Howard Keck's crew of Travers and Coon, called the Whiz Kids when they came to Indy because they were so young and the car was so (as they called cars in California that had been "LA'd to the max") sanitary. Kurtis sold similar chassis to other entrants, but no one had the vision to lay the Offy down. BTW, the Offy was not laid over to near the extent the Cummings was. Nonetheless, the Keck Kurtis won the race two years running with Bill Vukovich up. He would have won three in a row except for the failure of a 39 cent hose clamp.

[fines]

It was Kurtis' idea to offset the engine, and the 500A's engine was still upright! Kurtis had already built an offset car in the fourties, the Ross Page Offenhauser.

I don't think there was a Diesel option in the '66 rules; Cimarosti in his very detailed appendix just mentions rotary and turbine engines.

[karlcars]

I'm pretty sure George Salih deserves the credit for the laydown Offy. He worked at Meyer Drake and was able to get an engine suitably converted -- no small task. Quin Epperly built the car for Salih and it won the 500 in 1957 and 1958.

[cabianca]

When it comes to mid-fifties Indy cars, the term "laydown" was first used on the Keck Offy driven by Vukovich and crewed and partially built by Travers and Coon. As I said (in different words) in an earlier posting, the Keck crew had the first Kurtis-Offy where the engine was canted over from vertical. Admittedly this was not a complete "laydown" like the Cummings or later Offys, but the car was referred to up and down pit lane as "the laydown". Indeed, when I interviewed Howard Keck some thirty years later, he was still very proud. His words were, "We had the first laydown." Doubters may check the car at the Indianapolis Speedway Hall of Fame Museum. Its engine is canted, unlike any of its competition at the time. I also maintain that the idea of laying over the Offy was that of the Keck crew and not Frank Kurtis, even though Frank did the Cummings laydown concurrently. Obviously the Keck crew had to have been aware of what Frank was doing, but they took the initiative to do it with an Offy before anyone else. BTW, Keck is the only person to own an Indianapolis 500 winner and a Kentucky Derby winner.

[Eagle104]

Unlike any other Championship/Indianapolis car of its time: Remove the headrest assembly--turn the car over--it rolls on its tires!
http://www.velocityj...bin/wi.cgi?i=97

Also, the feature film mentioned is titled, "Diesel Race Car". A Cummins promotional film. Outstanding feature.