Well, in the interest of keeping an eye on things elsewhere in the vast Atlas F1 Empire, I check out what is going on at the other fora.
In a discussion on the Dale Jarrett DoY thread, dear ol' Joe Fan tried to discuss that train of thought and, per usual, got hammered by some of the F1 Nazis over there. And as usual, Joe was civil and dogged and whatever he said was generally ignored.
Joe, as I mentioned over there, is from the same bolt of cloth that gives us those who go into Biker Bars to preach the Gospel. Anybody that crazy has my attention and my respect as well.
Courage of conviction is never an issue and neither are his manners, which are inevitably polite and correct never stooping to the level of abuse and invictive aimed in his direction. One would think that Joe's calm way of discussing things would lead to the same in return. However, it like sharks at a feeding frenzy and just as nasty.
Gee, I like F1/GP racing and I also like NASCAR. I also like Diet Coke and Fritos, but don't think that I would like to subsist off a diet of just those too items. I really like aspects of both and detest aspects of both.
I do deal with a few NASCAR Nazis and they are a pain in the butt just like the F1 Nazis. Indeed, the only difference to the Trained Eye seems to be which series they choose to be a Nazi for. Both seem intolerant of anything that smacks of criticism of their series and they usually substitute thuggery for thought.
Yeah, I know I should just shut up and let it ride, but I can't. I definitely don't want to pick a fight with the F1 Nazis any more than I do with the NASCAR Nazis, but I just fail to see what is gained from being so ugly, foul-mouthed, and nasty.
A suggestion is that they are on the Dark Side. Well, having strayed over there recently, I am cured. There is discussion with someone who you differ and there is bludgeroning someone that you differ with through insults and ugly comments.
What I read last night and today was pretty sad. And those who write I don't see as Bad People by any stretch of the imagination, but then they switch into their F1 Nazi Mode and blam!
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Something to Think About Round 2
Started by
Don Capps
, Dec 10 1999 02:50
23 replies to this topic
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#2
Todd
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- 18,936 posts
- Joined: September 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 04:19
I've been known to get out of control in driver discussions, but the whole F1 v. NASCAR thing is a head-scratcher for me. I must be a NASCAR sympathizer. I'm not really a big NASCAR fan. For the most part, until very recently, I've found oval track racing on TV to be about as frustrating as a trip to the DMV.
That doesn't mean for a second that I don't find it interesting. I've struggled around an oval enough to know that it isn't any easier than a road course. It is just different. I'm just as fascinated by the equipment and technique they use in Durham N.C. as I am by the FW14. I don't understand the venomous response to the ESPN award either. If an Australian sports network announced that the '99 V8 racing series champion was their DOTY, I would just think; I wish I could get Australian V8 racing on TV. I wonder if those guys are using independent rear suspension? If Austria gave their Driver of the Year award to an ice racer, I would wonder to myself, how do you cam an engine for ice racing? You can't use low end torque. I don't think high end power would do much good either. Do professional ice racers get to use spikes?
I really think that the most intolerant things written about NASCAR are written by frustrated US residents. People who don't like the country they live in and would rather be somewhere else are lashing out at NASCAR for being so profoundly Uhmerican. I'm not my country's biggest fan, but I've been enough places to know we don't need to feel inferior to any other countries.
Don,
I don't think you were wrong to accuse said individuals of being poor racing fans. I do think that calling people any form of Nazis is almost always going to get an indignant and self-righteous response. My advice to you is to ridicule the physical nature of the relationships they have with their mothers.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 12-09-1999).]
That doesn't mean for a second that I don't find it interesting. I've struggled around an oval enough to know that it isn't any easier than a road course. It is just different. I'm just as fascinated by the equipment and technique they use in Durham N.C. as I am by the FW14. I don't understand the venomous response to the ESPN award either. If an Australian sports network announced that the '99 V8 racing series champion was their DOTY, I would just think; I wish I could get Australian V8 racing on TV. I wonder if those guys are using independent rear suspension? If Austria gave their Driver of the Year award to an ice racer, I would wonder to myself, how do you cam an engine for ice racing? You can't use low end torque. I don't think high end power would do much good either. Do professional ice racers get to use spikes?
I really think that the most intolerant things written about NASCAR are written by frustrated US residents. People who don't like the country they live in and would rather be somewhere else are lashing out at NASCAR for being so profoundly Uhmerican. I'm not my country's biggest fan, but I've been enough places to know we don't need to feel inferior to any other countries.
Don,
I don't think you were wrong to accuse said individuals of being poor racing fans. I do think that calling people any form of Nazis is almost always going to get an indignant and self-righteous response. My advice to you is to ridicule the physical nature of the relationships they have with their mothers.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 12-09-1999).]
#3
John B
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- 7,924 posts
- Joined: June 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 04:42
Well Don and Todd, there are RACING fans and then there are...
The question of which driver had the best season was a good one. The same can't be said about some of the debate that followed.
For the hell of it I was thinking of posting a similar topic on a NASCAR board, just to compare reactions...
[This message has been edited by John B (edited 12-09-1999).]
The question of which driver had the best season was a good one. The same can't be said about some of the debate that followed.
For the hell of it I was thinking of posting a similar topic on a NASCAR board, just to compare reactions...
[This message has been edited by John B (edited 12-09-1999).]
#4
Dennis David
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- 2,480 posts
- Joined: March 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 04:59
Joe is someone I could sit down and have a beer with.
------------------
Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
------------------
Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#5
Don Capps
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- 5,933 posts
- Joined: May 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 05:01
Todd,
If Seinfield can have a Soup Nazi, I can have the other sorts. But, that is how I see some folks by their actions. Hey, I really like F1, but it is just racing, not an Essential Truth. If F1/ NASCAR/ CART/ BTCC. etc., vanished today, would the sun not shine somewhere tomorrow? Would it mean that all our birthdays would be revoked? That Rice Krispies would no longer Snap! Crackle! or Pop!? The Earth would abide.
Besides, what you mentioned is more of what I expect from the others to say to me.
Yeah, like you, I generally get that, "Wow, Ozzie GT racer is DoY? Hmmm, what am I missing lemme see... when is that on Speedvision?"
I like NASCAR, but the hype often grates on me. Dig under the hype and like any other form of racing it is really interesting. The F1 hype grates on me too. I no more buy the NASCAR propaganda line than I do the F1 propaganda line. Indeed, if you squint your eyes and slightly cover your ears, it is virtually identical. My fear is that they are like kudzu and are killing off everything else and spending more time on peddling merchandise than on the racing.
Well, I am sorry that I said what I did to Razor, but sometimes my Crusader Rabbit persona gets the best of me. I like Joe - even when he drives me crazy! - and that whole thing just struck me wrong. If that image - and I was being honest - hadn't flashed inside my head, that would have been the end of that. But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, there goes Crusader Rabbit!
I guess too much time on my hands today.
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
If Seinfield can have a Soup Nazi, I can have the other sorts. But, that is how I see some folks by their actions. Hey, I really like F1, but it is just racing, not an Essential Truth. If F1/ NASCAR/ CART/ BTCC. etc., vanished today, would the sun not shine somewhere tomorrow? Would it mean that all our birthdays would be revoked? That Rice Krispies would no longer Snap! Crackle! or Pop!? The Earth would abide.
Besides, what you mentioned is more of what I expect from the others to say to me.
Yeah, like you, I generally get that, "Wow, Ozzie GT racer is DoY? Hmmm, what am I missing lemme see... when is that on Speedvision?"
I like NASCAR, but the hype often grates on me. Dig under the hype and like any other form of racing it is really interesting. The F1 hype grates on me too. I no more buy the NASCAR propaganda line than I do the F1 propaganda line. Indeed, if you squint your eyes and slightly cover your ears, it is virtually identical. My fear is that they are like kudzu and are killing off everything else and spending more time on peddling merchandise than on the racing.
Well, I am sorry that I said what I did to Razor, but sometimes my Crusader Rabbit persona gets the best of me. I like Joe - even when he drives me crazy!
- and that whole thing just struck me wrong. If that image - and I was being honest - hadn't flashed inside my head, that would have been the end of that. But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, there goes Crusader Rabbit!I guess too much time on my hands today.
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#6
Sean
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- 118 posts
- Joined: September 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 05:48
Don,
In addition to reiterating just about every item in Todd's post above, I want to apologize for fanning the flames. I should know what I'll get when trying to debate one of the individuals, and sure enough... However, I wouldn't regret what you said were I you - there is no place for condemning any form of motorsport with the caveat they don't use child labor, slavery etc, etc...and moral values like this are not any issue anyway. It's like arguing over crunchy or plain peanut butter - both are good, but most people prefer one or the other. But I'll not turn down either on a sunday afternoon.
I know the drivers of the varying series don't feel the way many of us do, that they have sincere appreciation for all their peers. I long for the days to return when this could be shown by them, when the drivers themselves were able to prove this by cheerfully participating in elective events. Not only did these activities help prove who really was a well rounded driver and produced true legends like Foyt, Andretti, P. and G. Hill, Gurney, etc, but it also tore down walls we currently see between series which, conceptually at least, just aren't that different. Unfortunately, with any marginalization, this partisanship will only increase, and there is no end to the divides we've seen in the past couple decades. The series' sanctioning bodies aren't helping matters either. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Sean (edited 12-09-1999).]
In addition to reiterating just about every item in Todd's post above, I want to apologize for fanning the flames. I should know what I'll get when trying to debate one of the individuals, and sure enough... However, I wouldn't regret what you said were I you - there is no place for condemning any form of motorsport with the caveat they don't use child labor, slavery etc, etc...and moral values like this are not any issue anyway. It's like arguing over crunchy or plain peanut butter - both are good, but most people prefer one or the other. But I'll not turn down either on a sunday afternoon.
I know the drivers of the varying series don't feel the way many of us do, that they have sincere appreciation for all their peers. I long for the days to return when this could be shown by them, when the drivers themselves were able to prove this by cheerfully participating in elective events. Not only did these activities help prove who really was a well rounded driver and produced true legends like Foyt, Andretti, P. and G. Hill, Gurney, etc, but it also tore down walls we currently see between series which, conceptually at least, just aren't that different. Unfortunately, with any marginalization, this partisanship will only increase, and there is no end to the divides we've seen in the past couple decades. The series' sanctioning bodies aren't helping matters either. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Sean (edited 12-09-1999).]
#7
Statesidefan
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- 364 posts
- Joined: July 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 10:10
Don,
I must take exception at your characterizing that debate as "thuggery". F-1 Razor, Fast One, Joe and I all kept the debate on civil terms. I wll be the forst to admit that Bigwig crossed the line and I acknowleged that on the thread.
If you read ANY of my posts you would see that I never said that NASCAR drivers were not talented or that NASCAR was not a top series. What I did state was this:
1) The hype and glitz that NASCAR as become is excessive relative to on track product that supports it. It almost an embarassment to see what hokey, crass promotion they will brew up next.
2) To say that NASCAR is higher on the motorsports ladder than CART or F-1 is ignoring reality. In terms of skill, talent, difficulty of venues etc. NASCAR is not close to either series.
I have had good exchanges with Joe in the past on this Forum and "over there". We are both big fans of David Pearson and Cale Yarborough, but we cannot agree on some other points. So what? It is fun to mix it up a little bit. I don't think any of us (except Bigwig) are guility of "marginilizing" racing. If anyone in the US is I would say it is the France family and the good 'ol boys from Daytona.
Joe and I probably have more in common than you think. I told him once that the NASCAR he loves and the F-1 I loved have been gone about 20 years or so. The only difference is I'll admit that F-1 ain't what it used to be.
Todd,
I am not full of self-loathing as you have said in the past. I stated that I liked European motocross one time and that was your response. If you had bothered to ask why you might have found my reasoning somewhat legitimate.
Motos are 45 minutes as opposed to 30 here. Track length is usually over 2 miles as opposed to 1.5 or so here. Euro track are less jump infested, but have more long straights, switchbacks, g-outs and off camber turns.
See.... not so full of self-loathing now am I? Always pulled for the US team in the Motocross des Nations.
------------------
"The strategy of a Formula One race is very simple. It's flat out from the minute the flag drops." Mario Andretti 1976
I must take exception at your characterizing that debate as "thuggery". F-1 Razor, Fast One, Joe and I all kept the debate on civil terms. I wll be the forst to admit that Bigwig crossed the line and I acknowleged that on the thread.
If you read ANY of my posts you would see that I never said that NASCAR drivers were not talented or that NASCAR was not a top series. What I did state was this:
1) The hype and glitz that NASCAR as become is excessive relative to on track product that supports it. It almost an embarassment to see what hokey, crass promotion they will brew up next.
2) To say that NASCAR is higher on the motorsports ladder than CART or F-1 is ignoring reality. In terms of skill, talent, difficulty of venues etc. NASCAR is not close to either series.
I have had good exchanges with Joe in the past on this Forum and "over there". We are both big fans of David Pearson and Cale Yarborough, but we cannot agree on some other points. So what? It is fun to mix it up a little bit. I don't think any of us (except Bigwig) are guility of "marginilizing" racing. If anyone in the US is I would say it is the France family and the good 'ol boys from Daytona.
Joe and I probably have more in common than you think. I told him once that the NASCAR he loves and the F-1 I loved have been gone about 20 years or so. The only difference is I'll admit that F-1 ain't what it used to be.
Todd,
I am not full of self-loathing as you have said in the past. I stated that I liked European motocross one time and that was your response. If you had bothered to ask why you might have found my reasoning somewhat legitimate.
Motos are 45 minutes as opposed to 30 here. Track length is usually over 2 miles as opposed to 1.5 or so here. Euro track are less jump infested, but have more long straights, switchbacks, g-outs and off camber turns.
See.... not so full of self-loathing now am I? Always pulled for the US team in the Motocross des Nations.
------------------
"The strategy of a Formula One race is very simple. It's flat out from the minute the flag drops." Mario Andretti 1976
#8
F1razor
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- 907 posts
- Joined: June 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 10:39
Yeah, I gotta say accusing us of being Nazi's is way, way, way, out of line. This isn't a sitcom, and obviously some of us take our racing pretty seriously. Including said Joe Fan. There is also a certain connotation that can be taken from it, especially if you are a Schumacher fan like myself.
I think what amazes me about this whole incident, is how Don as the authority to simply end the discussion he rat holed with his uncalled for Nazi comments by deleting the thread, and then come over here and make commentary on it were it's 'safe'.
And Sean, he is the biggest piece of work of all...this is the man who's explatives and manic episodes makes BigWig look like a saint.
It's the hypocracy I simply cannot accept. Remember that you also used 'Neo-Nazi' and a little anecdotal story about racism in South Carolina. THAT my friend, has nothing to do with Sienfeld and the 'soup Nazi'.
No one is perfect. No one has all the answers, and no one is the perfect racing fan either. But there are more than a couple of you who think your perspective on the world must be shared by everyone. And I submit to you that you are gravely mistaken.
I think what amazes me about this whole incident, is how Don as the authority to simply end the discussion he rat holed with his uncalled for Nazi comments by deleting the thread, and then come over here and make commentary on it were it's 'safe'.
And Sean, he is the biggest piece of work of all...this is the man who's explatives and manic episodes makes BigWig look like a saint.
It's the hypocracy I simply cannot accept. Remember that you also used 'Neo-Nazi' and a little anecdotal story about racism in South Carolina. THAT my friend, has nothing to do with Sienfeld and the 'soup Nazi'.
No one is perfect. No one has all the answers, and no one is the perfect racing fan either. But there are more than a couple of you who think your perspective on the world must be shared by everyone. And I submit to you that you are gravely mistaken.
#9
Fast One
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- 600 posts
- Joined: October 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 10:57
Don--
I was going to do this by private e-mail; when I checked the site at the end of the work day and saw where it had gone, I thought the whole thing had finally gotten out of hand. Sorry if you think I'm an F1 Nazi, especially after our exchanges yesterday. I thought I was always civil. Joe and I have disagreed before, and I have always found him bright, articulate, and civil. This time I thought he went too far and told him so. Since the thread has vanished, I can't quote anyone, but this Joe didn't seem like the Joe I've enjoyed debating, and somtimes agreeing with, in the past. If you think I went too far, please tell me. Maybe I'm missing something I said that was out of line. But frankly, I think I was spot on, or I wouldn't have said anything.
You know what my objection was, and I think it was fair. If I went into Northern Ireland, walked into a church, and started telling evryone they were the wrong persuasion and were going to hell, etc., I'd have no right later to say I was calm, so they had no right to tar and feather me. I should have known what to expect when I walked in. If you preach in a biker bar, I may respect you, but I'd think you were stupid for acting aggrieved that you got your ass kicked.
Its about respect, Don. You don't walk into the other guys neighborhood, provoke him, and not expect a negative reaction. Lots of people do this and I don't think it's right. This isn't about what anyone likes, it's about where to say what you say. That was my point, but it seemed like you didn't see it.
Sorry to all if this makes me a nazi. It was certainly not my intent.
I was going to do this by private e-mail; when I checked the site at the end of the work day and saw where it had gone, I thought the whole thing had finally gotten out of hand. Sorry if you think I'm an F1 Nazi, especially after our exchanges yesterday. I thought I was always civil. Joe and I have disagreed before, and I have always found him bright, articulate, and civil. This time I thought he went too far and told him so. Since the thread has vanished, I can't quote anyone, but this Joe didn't seem like the Joe I've enjoyed debating, and somtimes agreeing with, in the past. If you think I went too far, please tell me. Maybe I'm missing something I said that was out of line. But frankly, I think I was spot on, or I wouldn't have said anything.
You know what my objection was, and I think it was fair. If I went into Northern Ireland, walked into a church, and started telling evryone they were the wrong persuasion and were going to hell, etc., I'd have no right later to say I was calm, so they had no right to tar and feather me. I should have known what to expect when I walked in. If you preach in a biker bar, I may respect you, but I'd think you were stupid for acting aggrieved that you got your ass kicked.
Its about respect, Don. You don't walk into the other guys neighborhood, provoke him, and not expect a negative reaction. Lots of people do this and I don't think it's right. This isn't about what anyone likes, it's about where to say what you say. That was my point, but it seemed like you didn't see it.
Sorry to all if this makes me a nazi. It was certainly not my intent.
#10
Don Capps
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- 5,933 posts
- Joined: May 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 12:20
Guys,
First, we ALL suffer from the mouth being faster than the brain and that gets us in trouble. We are all fast on the trigger and usually blast away before thinking things through.
Second, is it just me or did civilization just go to crud and we now just squat on each others mess kit without a thought and then get bent when someone gets upset? I am really perturbed that I am become just like the other folks whenever I venture oner to The Big Board. People are not nice over there more often than I realized.
Third, I apologize for getting over the top and siding into my feldmarschal Don persona. It takes a bit to get me riled, but then I get it out of the system and forget about it and always end praying for more patience.
Fourth, this:
I did not delete the thread. It was gone before I could get the okay to delete it. I don't delete threads on The Big Board without checking first, just common courtesy. But, damn right that I would have.
Fifth, let's get over this and move on. Life is too short to stand around trying to figure out how to pole vault mouse turds.
Razor, You are always welcome here. Feel free to visit and post to your heart's content. I will not treat you any different from anybody else. You even have many ideas that - gasp! - I happen to agree with.
Stateside, Ditto much of the above. I realize that you mean well and that I was quicker on the trigger than I should have been perhaps.
FO/ Grasshopper, Ditto as well. You - or any of y'all - are not a Nazi, you just press the envelope sometimes like the rest of us. This changes nothing between us. Carry on.
Last word on this from me is that fuss and debate all you want. But, sometimes you just need to let it drop. I just had my nose rubbed in that piece of advice. I plan to be much slower on the draw in the future.
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
First, we ALL suffer from the mouth being faster than the brain and that gets us in trouble. We are all fast on the trigger and usually blast away before thinking things through.
Second, is it just me or did civilization just go to crud and we now just squat on each others mess kit without a thought and then get bent when someone gets upset? I am really perturbed that I am become just like the other folks whenever I venture oner to The Big Board. People are not nice over there more often than I realized.
Third, I apologize for getting over the top and siding into my feldmarschal Don persona. It takes a bit to get me riled, but then I get it out of the system and forget about it and always end praying for more patience.
Fourth, this:
I think what amazes me about this whole incident, is how Don as the authority to simply end the discussion he rat holed with his uncalled for Nazi comments by deleting the thread, and then come over here and make commentary on it were it's 'safe'.
I did not delete the thread. It was gone before I could get the okay to delete it. I don't delete threads on The Big Board without checking first, just common courtesy. But, damn right that I would have.
Fifth, let's get over this and move on. Life is too short to stand around trying to figure out how to pole vault mouse turds.
Razor, You are always welcome here. Feel free to visit and post to your heart's content. I will not treat you any different from anybody else. You even have many ideas that - gasp! - I happen to agree with.
Stateside, Ditto much of the above. I realize that you mean well and that I was quicker on the trigger than I should have been perhaps.
FO/ Grasshopper, Ditto as well. You - or any of y'all - are not a Nazi, you just press the envelope sometimes like the rest of us. This changes nothing between us. Carry on.
Last word on this from me is that fuss and debate all you want. But, sometimes you just need to let it drop. I just had my nose rubbed in that piece of advice. I plan to be much slower on the draw in the future.
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#11
F1razor
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- 907 posts
- Joined: June 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 13:03
Consider it dropped by me Don.
There is no denying that you are a reasonable human being.
I hope someday you will show me that move you were talking about, though. I have some martial arts background...but I have always thought it pales in comparison to real life combat training.
Anyway, for what it's worth...I am a big Jeff Gordon fan.
And I accept your invitation, I might actually learn something here! Just like I learned something today. Mostly about myself.
Cheers!
(and I mean that quite literally, as we speak I am sipping on a very nice Cab that I have been saving)
[This message has been edited by F1razor (edited 12-10-1999).]
There is no denying that you are a reasonable human being.
I hope someday you will show me that move you were talking about, though. I have some martial arts background...but I have always thought it pales in comparison to real life combat training.
Anyway, for what it's worth...I am a big Jeff Gordon fan.
And I accept your invitation, I might actually learn something here! Just like I learned something today. Mostly about myself.
Cheers!
(and I mean that quite literally, as we speak I am sipping on a very nice Cab that I have been saving)
[This message has been edited by F1razor (edited 12-10-1999).]
#12
Don Capps
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- 5,933 posts
- Joined: May 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 13:33
Good man Razor, consider yourself a Bud (or have one from the fridge if you wish).
Only twice in my entire tour in Viet-Nam did I actually do anything remotely hand to hand: once some lucky NVA and I both went click, click at about 5 meters from each other in a general brawl when we dropped in for a raid in the middle of the night - no bullets in his AK and none in my CAR 15 (okay XM177E2 to be technical)! He dropped his AK and started to do some kung fu or something - I shot him with my Browning 9mm... and the other time I used a .44 Magnum with hollow points since it was close in work - it made a huge exit wound.
But, that's not what I would have done.
Indeed, the last fight I ever had in my life was over before even I realized it: while I was out of the service and teaching high school while I was in grad school and before I went back in, some punk was mouthing off to a female teacher and as I was passing the room - he used some Serious profanity and then pushed her. He bolted and after a check check to see if she was okay I went after the kid. I caught up with him and was on the way to the office when he reared back and hit me once in the chest - then he swung again. Fortunately there were several dozen witnesss who saw it all - he hit me, swung again and then he was gone. I threw him into a wall several meters away feet up, head down and snatched him off the ground and coldcocked him before I even realized it. He was 6 feet 3 or so and at least 220 pounds and I am 5 foot 7 on a tall day and only maybe 150 or 155 then. I think I was more surprised than he was. For some reason I never any discipline problems in my AO after that.
Actually I am not a violent person!
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Only twice in my entire tour in Viet-Nam did I actually do anything remotely hand to hand: once some lucky NVA and I both went click, click at about 5 meters from each other in a general brawl when we dropped in for a raid in the middle of the night - no bullets in his AK and none in my CAR 15 (okay XM177E2 to be technical)! He dropped his AK and started to do some kung fu or something - I shot him with my Browning 9mm... and the other time I used a .44 Magnum with hollow points since it was close in work - it made a huge exit wound.
But, that's not what I would have done.
Indeed, the last fight I ever had in my life was over before even I realized it: while I was out of the service and teaching high school while I was in grad school and before I went back in, some punk was mouthing off to a female teacher and as I was passing the room - he used some Serious profanity and then pushed her. He bolted and after a check check to see if she was okay I went after the kid. I caught up with him and was on the way to the office when he reared back and hit me once in the chest - then he swung again. Fortunately there were several dozen witnesss who saw it all - he hit me, swung again and then he was gone. I threw him into a wall several meters away feet up, head down and snatched him off the ground and coldcocked him before I even realized it. He was 6 feet 3 or so and at least 220 pounds and I am 5 foot 7 on a tall day and only maybe 150 or 155 then. I think I was more surprised than he was. For some reason I never any discipline problems in my AO after that.
Actually I am not a violent person!
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#13
F1razor
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- 907 posts
- Joined: June 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 15:19
Lol!!
Well, I am officially scared of you dude...because that's exactly my dimensions, 6'3" 220 or so....just goes to show you!! Size matters little!!
I have a bud who is like 6'4" and 240..and he is the toughest SOB I have ever known. Attitude with SIZE is a scary thing, you know!!
If he ever came after me...I think I might just RUN!! lol!
Well, I am officially scared of you dude...because that's exactly my dimensions, 6'3" 220 or so....just goes to show you!! Size matters little!!
I have a bud who is like 6'4" and 240..and he is the toughest SOB I have ever known. Attitude with SIZE is a scary thing, you know!!
If he ever came after me...I think I might just RUN!! lol!
#14
Fast One
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- 600 posts
- Joined: October 99
Member
Posted 10 December 1999 - 08:10
Don--
Consider peace made with me as well. As I explained to Razor once, my humor is pretty acidic, and usually when people think I'm "pushing the envelope", I'm just being funny...or trying to.
If you could reread what Joe said, though, and read it objectively, I'd think you'd see his comments weren't as innocent or as fair-minded as you thought. Maybe it was personal problems, but Joe was different: his comments on foreigners were wrong and uncalled for. I just hope whatever was wrong resolves itself and we get our old Joe back. I personally love the debates with him.
I'm glad this is over; it really did get out of hand.
Consider peace made with me as well. As I explained to Razor once, my humor is pretty acidic, and usually when people think I'm "pushing the envelope", I'm just being funny...or trying to.
If you could reread what Joe said, though, and read it objectively, I'd think you'd see his comments weren't as innocent or as fair-minded as you thought. Maybe it was personal problems, but Joe was different: his comments on foreigners were wrong and uncalled for. I just hope whatever was wrong resolves itself and we get our old Joe back. I personally love the debates with him.
I'm glad this is over; it really did get out of hand.
#15
Don Capps
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- 5,933 posts
- Joined: May 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 03:56
Unless there is any objection, I will delete this thread in the next few hours.
Sean, Sorry but somehow my comments to you seemed to be victim of Fumble Fingers. Ditto as the others. Continue to have fun here.
I will pull the plug on this in about 2 hours. Out.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Sean, Sorry but somehow my comments to you seemed to be victim of Fumble Fingers. Ditto as the others. Continue to have fun here.
I will pull the plug on this in about 2 hours. Out.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#16
Pit Babe
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- 7,725 posts
- Joined: August 99
Paddock Club Host emerita
Posted 11 December 1999 - 05:08
For the record, I was the one who deleted the thread.
Don, please keep this thread open for about a day so that anyone who wants to take the deletion up with me will know where to go to do so.
Thanks!
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PB ;-)
Experientia docet
Don, please keep this thread open for about a day so that anyone who wants to take the deletion up with me will know where to go to do so.
Thanks!
------------------
PB ;-)
Experientia docet
#17
Don Capps
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- 5,933 posts
- Joined: May 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 05:28
PB,
Can do. I'll let this one drift for another 48 hours, okay?
Don
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
Can do. I'll let this one drift for another 48 hours, okay?
Don
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
#18
Todd
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- 18,936 posts
- Joined: September 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 05:35
Pit Babe,
I think killing that thread had the desired result. It really wasn't going anywhere good. I was more upset by the attacks on Joe Fan than the attacks on NASCAR. They were just silly. Attacking Joe Fan, on the other hand, stung more of intolerance. I probably over-reacted to what I saw as a celebration of successfully fillibustering a valid opinion out of the forum. Oh well. Keep up the good work and say something nice about me to Bira. She really doesn't like me.
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Forza Michael Schumacher,
Todd
I think killing that thread had the desired result. It really wasn't going anywhere good. I was more upset by the attacks on Joe Fan than the attacks on NASCAR. They were just silly. Attacking Joe Fan, on the other hand, stung more of intolerance. I probably over-reacted to what I saw as a celebration of successfully fillibustering a valid opinion out of the forum. Oh well. Keep up the good work and say something nice about me to Bira. She really doesn't like me.
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Forza Michael Schumacher,
Todd
#19
Statesidefan
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- 364 posts
- Joined: July 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 08:15
Well count me in on the peace. I did not feel we were at war, but I agree with Todd that it was going nowhere.
I look forward to hearing from Joe in the future. Perhaps we should all go over to the NASCAR BB and post a F-1 thread......nah. Time is too precious.
Pit Babe, If Joe hadn't abandoned ship I wish you would have let it go another day. I think his bowing out was in effect an end to the thread.
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"The strategy of a Formula One race is very simple. It's flat out from the minute the flag drops." Mario Andretti 1976
I look forward to hearing from Joe in the future. Perhaps we should all go over to the NASCAR BB and post a F-1 thread......nah. Time is too precious.
Pit Babe, If Joe hadn't abandoned ship I wish you would have let it go another day. I think his bowing out was in effect an end to the thread.
------------------
"The strategy of a Formula One race is very simple. It's flat out from the minute the flag drops." Mario Andretti 1976
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#20
Dennis David
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- 2,480 posts
- Joined: March 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 11:45
Most posters on the WEB not just at AtlasF1 underestimate the power of the written word to cause pain. There is this idea that words can't hurt or hurt less if they are presented through another medium like the Internet. I don't know where this idea ever got started but I find it one of the uglier aspects of this great medium.
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#21
Pit Babe
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- 7,725 posts
- Joined: August 99
Paddock Club Host emerita
Posted 11 December 1999 - 12:53
Statesidefan: whether Joe Fan was present or not wasn't the issue. We do not tell people where to go and we do not call people names. Leaving the thread up served no useful purpose.
#22
F1razor
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- 907 posts
- Joined: June 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 13:14
Well...I guess I am the one who did what Pit Babe is talking about. I apologize. I did feel I was being compared to a Neo-Nazi...and that is why I lost my temper. But I have no excuse. At any rate, Don and I seem to be cool now.
The double standard however, is kind of hard to accept. I can tell you with absolute certaintly that I too...like Don, am fed up with the Big Board and am done over there.
There is some language over there in a thread that makes the thread you deleted look quite tame.
Don't really understand why that is being tolerated in light of you what you just said Pit Babe. But you are the admin. So I guess I just have to accept it.
Cheers everyone. Looks like this place and the Paddock Club is where I will be spending my time. Unless of course the same thing happens in these two places too. I don't mind debating. But it's no fun to have someone fixate on you and bait you all the time. Guess I have been hard on Joe Fan this year, and I am getting a bit of a taste of my own medicine. But I don't ever remember getting quite so venomous with him.
*sigh*...oh well. It's your board.
The double standard however, is kind of hard to accept. I can tell you with absolute certaintly that I too...like Don, am fed up with the Big Board and am done over there.
There is some language over there in a thread that makes the thread you deleted look quite tame.
Don't really understand why that is being tolerated in light of you what you just said Pit Babe. But you are the admin. So I guess I just have to accept it.
Cheers everyone. Looks like this place and the Paddock Club is where I will be spending my time. Unless of course the same thing happens in these two places too. I don't mind debating. But it's no fun to have someone fixate on you and bait you all the time. Guess I have been hard on Joe Fan this year, and I am getting a bit of a taste of my own medicine. But I don't ever remember getting quite so venomous with him.
*sigh*...oh well. It's your board.
#23
Pit Babe
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- 7,725 posts
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Paddock Club Host emerita
Posted 11 December 1999 - 13:34
F1r - I cannot be on the BB at all times, nor can I be everywhere at once when I am here. I have a forum to run, and it should be obvious that I'm having a hard enough time dealing with that since I have pulled a co-moderator into the fray. I do the best I can with what I see in the time I have. If another admin reviews a thread and leaves it up, I can't say why (s)he chose to do so. The only suggestion I can make is to e-mail us at admin@atlasf1.com ; maybe the discrepancies you see in the way the BB is monitored can be addressed using this method of communication.
And no, I did not delete the thread based upon what you alone said. I reviewed it, decided it was unsalvageable due to multiple unsavoury posts from several members, waved my magic wand and it was gone.
And no, I did not delete the thread based upon what you alone said. I reviewed it, decided it was unsalvageable due to multiple unsavoury posts from several members, waved my magic wand and it was gone.
#24
F1razor
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- 907 posts
- Joined: June 99
Member
Posted 11 December 1999 - 13:54
No problem Pit Babe...I see the offending thread is gone now. I actually think you guys do a great job. It's been a very wild day...should have given more time before I assumed it was not being handled.
Anyway, just sent ya email. Ciao.
Forza Ferrari!
Anyway, just sent ya email. Ciao.
Forza Ferrari!
