57 replies to this topic

[Fast One]

Joe--

I think it's almost impossible to make a top 100 list, or atop any number, because unless you put them all through a series of races on varying tracks and of varying length in absolutely equal cars at the very peak of each driver's career, there's no way to really know. Besides, you'd hate my list. There would be a number of Americans but no NASCAR types, 'cause I think they ALL suck in the big scheme of things. You'd end up thinking I'm unreasonable, even though I'm right(!!!)(don't know how to make those smiley faces).

Look my friend, I think you are brave just for attempting the thing, and I have examined it with great interest. Besides, I didn't say I didn't LIKE it. I just explained to the poster that the 25 slots for furrin' drivers have been taken. And I was probably right. N'est pas?

[Dennis David]

I think that the only benefit of creating a list is that it may spur the reader on to learn a little more about the drivers on the list.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Joe Fan]

Fast One, what do you think IROC has done for the past 16 years? It serves to give us more knowledge about driver talents in generic equally prepared cars. I don't buy the crap that IROC cars give NASCAR drivers an advantage. This is the spin put out by the sour grapes CART crowd because they can't accept that NASCAR has better talent in it than CART does now. They will change their tune as soon as a CART driver starts winning in it again. IROC cars have less horsepower and more downforce created by their rear deck lid spoiler than a Winston Cup stock car has and IROC has never stopped great open wheel drivers from winning in it like they did moreso in the 70's than today. Al Unser Jr. has had no problems winning in IROC in the recent past and he has said himself that he doesn't think IROC cars give NASCAR drivers an advantage. Granted the series eventually ended up racing only on ovals when it should be half ovals and half road courses like it used to be.

I don't think that IROC is the end-all to determine who is the best driver but at least it is a purer form to determine talent and skill in generic equally prepared cars than in cars with unbridled powerplants and teams with varying bank rolls.

Dennis, I am down to two drivers. What drivers do you think that would be a crime to leave off? I am considering Mike Hawthorn, Carlo Sainz and Bobby Rahal for the last two spots. My list centers around driver's accomplishments (ie. winning the big time races, series championships etc.) in varying motorsports series because there is no shortage of great drivers to choose from over a 100 year time frame. I know that I will be leaving off some great drivers as some were killed before they could rack up an impressive resume but I tried to include the best of the best in the top series from both sides of the Atlantic.

[Fast One]

Joe--

You'e joking, right??? Let's see, a series run entirely on ovals in heavy, slow reacting cars...no you're right, Joe, that sounds about as equitable as a series could be.

Why not run the oval races in tin tops and half the series on road courses in open wheelers? THAT would be fair and I guarantee would ensure that no NASCAR driver ever placed in the top six again.

The truth, Joe, is that the IROC is a shill publicity stunt by the greatest dog and pony show operator of them all, Bill France, to create the illusion that he's actually got some driving talent in that rediculous series called Winston Cup.

When half the races are run in high horsepower open wheelers on genuine road courses, and the road racers are not a bunch of Trans Am second shelf guys, I'll take your claims seriously. Until then, I'm laughing my ass off.

[Joe Fan]

Fast One, the reason why IROC should be raced in generic cars is that is the proper vehicle of determing true racing talent. Racing in antiquated open wheel designs is a specialized form of racing that requires time moreso than true racing talent to master. Given enough time, top talent will eventually succeed in any form of motorsport. Racing in more generic cars speeds up this process and shows whose got it and who doesn't quickly.

[Fast One]

Joe--

Say what??? Did you just admit open wheelers are more difficult to drive? Did you just flinch when I offered up an equitable way to evaluate the skills of "the world's top drivers"? You just blew the game Joe, yoy just admitted what I've been saying all along. If Jeff and Dale and Dale and Jeff truly have the top talent in the US, as you prpetually state, let's drop 'em into a big-time open wheeler against Mika and Alex and Michael and Juan and they'll still come out on top, right? Guess not. Thanks, Joe, you've finally come around.

[Joe Fan]

Fast One, don't get excited no I didn't. IROC cars are easier to drive than IndyCars, F1 cars or NASCAR Winston Cup stock cars. However, I will say that that most open wheel cars are more sophisicated due to their steering wheels, it does take some time to master all the buttons. For this reason, these cars aren't condusive enough for a quicky series like the IROC cars.

[Fast One]

So the series must be conducted in cars that favor one group of drivers because it would be too difficult for them to learn to drive the other guys' cars? We can eliminate the steering wheel problem by mandating sequential shifters like CART uses. There should be no other problems, especially for the best racing talent in the world, right. So whaddaya say Joe? You and I will talk to your boss, Big Bad Bill from Hooterville about truly leveling the playing field in the IROC series. Then we'll see who can really drive...