27 replies to this topic

[F1razor]

I just watched the movie 'Grand Prix' (three times) for the first time. I couldn't help but put it into the 'epic' category of movies, reminded me of 'Sparticus' in a way (format wise).

Anyone know how it did at the box office? Any Oscar nominations, or other awards?

[bigblue]

I beleive the director won an oscar, maybe for cinematography or something. not real sure though. I really enjoy it also. Watch it about once a year.

[Xaxor]

"Grand Prix" was released in the Cinerama format, which was a huge curved screen and special multi-directional sound, something like an early version of IMAX. The other notable Cinerama movie was "2001 A Space Odessy" which followed "Grand Prix". Both of these movies were superb to see and hear in Cinerama which nearly gave them a third dimension. It won 3 Oscars, one for best sound.

Some of the background tid-bits about the movie include the inability of the writers to come up with a script even while filming was in progress (the story was pretty-much pieced together in the editing room); the staging of a "ghost" French GP at Clermont Ferrand; the non-appearance of Jim Clark who signed with another movie effort "Day of the Champion" which was to star Steve McQueen and be released to compete with Grand Prix but wasn't; the accidents at Monaco and Monza where cars were shot off the track by an air-cannon; the Spa rain-sequence which was shot during the actual race; names and the helmet design of the actors similar to actual drivers to enable actual racing footage to be weaved into the film:

Sarti = Surtees
Aaron = Amon
Stoddard = Stewart
Barlini = Bandini

After Surtees had a spat with Ferrari in mid 66 season, Micheal Parkes replaced him. That's why JP Sarti's helmet changes half-way thru the film.

Finally, the film had great original music composed by Maurice Jarre who did other notable movie themes incuding "Is Paris Burning" and "Doctor Zhivago".

[This message has been edited by Xaxor (edited 01-17-2000).]

[Ray Bell]

There were more famous films earlier in the history of Cinerama. "South Pacific" was the big one, I think. Was not "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" also on Cinerama, probably the last previous Cinerama film before Frankenheimer made "Grand Prix"
The first time I saw the film I sat in mid-theatre, but the second I got right down the front to get the full impact.
Certainly it was a difficult season to shoot footage from succeeding GPs. Unlike today, the cars changed a lot as the season progressed, and drivers changed cars and teams finally got the new engines they had been waiting for.
Who cares about the story line, anyway, when you've got such great footage of what is now such historic racing?

[Dennis David]

Really lets not let the story get in the way of what we really want to see! Did you see the short piece on Garner recently? I think it was F1 Racing. (The mags become a blur)

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Dennis David]

I wonder if Stalone's movie ever comes out who will play the lead. I hope they don't use some pretty boy like Pitt or that Leo character or I'm afraid I'll lose my lunch.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Eric McLoughlin]

Just a quick note on "Grand Prix". If anyone has read my piece in "Inrtroductions" you'll know that I reckon the film to be instrumental in my interest in motor racing. I was eight years old when I first saw it (in the cinema - in full Cinerama). Because of the trendy "Split Screen" technique used by the director, John Frankenheimer, it is almost pontless watching the movie on TV unless you watch it in Widescreen or "Letter Box" format. Because it is an MGM production, it is shown fairly frequently on the cable channel "TNT Classic Movies" or "TCM". Needless to say I video taped it years ago and watch it a couple of times a year. I've recently been passed on a collection of old "Motor Sport" magazines some of which are for 1966. I've been reading Denis Jenkinson's reports on the Hollywood intrusion during the season and they make interesting reading. As I'm short of time at the moment I'll come back on this topic in the next few days.I don't think the movie was a huge smash box-office wise. I'm sure the most successful Cinerama film must be "The Sound of Music".

[Ray Bell]

Yes, the film certainly touched the motor racing scene. Jenks was constantly on about its intrusion, there were people trying to get in on the act, getting paid for bit parts, there were cars being painted odd colours for races because one of the star cars from the movie wasn't there - lots of fun.
Once again, the cars would be there today, it was a different world then, without Bernie's regulation.
One of the reasons Jenks was crooked was that it happened within memory of the mighty Graham Hill shunt caused by the camera that fell of de Beaufort's Porsche at the Nurburgring. It was interfering with the pure purpose of their being - the winning of Grand Prix motor races.

[Don Capps]

The de Beaufort/ Hill problem led to cameras being a no-no for many years, BTW. Recall that "Hollywood" was a real pain that season since there were some significant changes due to the formula change and all the turmoil that stirred up. As far as the intrusion was concerned, it actually helped put a few cars on the grid here and there.

"The Day of the Champion" was the McQueen movie that never got off the ground and as was noted tied up Clark and several others for the duration.

As far as Cinerama goes, I was lucky to see GP when it first came, 1967, in that format. Plot? What plot? Just show the Spa scenes again!!!! It is best - as are nearly all modern movies - when seen in letterbox.

Xaxor brought up some really good info that most are unaware of and which didn't go unnoticed at the time about the drivers. The switch from Surtees to Parkes was done without missing a beat.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[SteveB2]

There was a guy who I assume was a racer in a couple of spots and I was wondering who he was. He had a Gootee. He was next to Hill in (I think) the Moncao party scene and was hanging around at teh "French" GP when Garner was trying to interview the Yamura. Just Curious.

S.

[Eric McLoughlin]

SteveB2

Jo Bonnier - a Swedish driver who at one time was head of the Grand Prix Drivers Association GPDA). Unfortunately. he was killed at Le Mans in 1972.

[luisfelipetrigo]

Gran Prix is one of my all time favorites. I was also lucky to see it (several times) when it first came out. Even though I do not see it every year as some of you, or have not seen it in more than 10 years (I will correct this before the end of the millennium) I do recall lots of scenes and dialogues. I recall seeing Pedro Rodriguez (in one scene with his usual 'Sherlock Holmes' cap), Jo Siffert, Grhaham Hill (already mentioned), Phill Hill.

The film won three Oscars: Best Sound; Best Sound Effects; Best Film Editing.


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Saludos
Luis Felipe

[jc_nl]

This is what I have found about the Stallone movie on an other forum:

Movie director Renny Harlin, who will lead the shooting of the new formula 1 movie has said they will start this spring. The story unfolds around an old racing driver performed by Sylvester Stallone. Although pictures will be taken at every Grand Prix, the main shooting will be at the Canadian GP.

Lets hope for the cars Stallone isn't going to sit in one. But there is one positive site, he cant act so he doesn't speak much. Wich means it should be possible to hear engine sounds. Not that those are so great these days, but the new McLaren sounds ok.

[Fast One]

Actually Don, ther was one hiccup in the helmet switch in Grand Prix. During the Spa sequence, they cut to an in-car shot of Yves Montand and he is wearing Parkes helmet! The live footage, of course, and the rest of the in-cars, show him properly in Surtees helmet. It's just a few seconds, but it was definitely careless editing.

I agree about the story. I just fast forward to the racing bits. I wonder how many videos they could sell of just the live racing footage that was canned before release. There must be hours of incredible footage that didn't make it in.

[Eric McLoughlin]

As you may gather, I find the film "Grand Prix" a really interesting subject. Sooner or later someone will write the definitive article about how it was devised and shot. There are lots of facets to it. For instance, in the Monaco sequence, you should notice that as the cars pass under the bridge before turning right and heading into the tunnel,a helicopter shot from above shows a line of what look like Formula 3 cars parked in a row on the bridge. Was this where they usually parked them? This was the old bridge which used to carry the railway tracks over the tunnel and into the train station. By 1966 the station had been demolished (as can be seen in the film) and the tracks ripped up. This whole complex is now the site of Loews Hotel. Another point, why is there no action footage of the British GP at Brands Hatch, only pre and post race celebrations? Why did they not shoot at the real French GP at Reims that year?
Did you know that Adolfo Celi, who plays the Ferrari team manager,had such bad English diction that ALL his dialogue had to be over-dubbed by another actor and that the actor who played Nicola Barlini could not drive.
British TV (it was one of the ITV companies, but I can't remember which one) made a documentary hosted by Alan Whicker about the making of "Grand Prix". I haven't seen it for thirty years or more but I distinctly remember some sections of it, like technicians kicking ten bells out of Dormula 3 car posing as the crashed Jordan BRM of Scott Stoddart.And also James Garner bitching after getting fished out of the Med in a rather damp condition. I would love to see the documentary again but I don't know if it still exists in its entirety. Excerpts from it turned up in a compilation of Whickers TV work shown about ten years ago.
I also like examining photos of the 1966 races to see if I can spot any of the movie cameras on the side of the circuit. They usually stand out as the Cinerama gear was huge compared to standard newsreel or TV equipment of the day.
The Michael Turner 1983 book "Formula One - The Cars and the Drivers" (text by Nigel Roebuck) does comment on the film when dealing with the 1966 season. Roebuck says - "Today the movie bears re-viewing, partly out of nostalgia for those days of BRDC badges and unsponsored cars and partly because it constitutes a record of the 1966 Formula One season".



[This message has been edited by Eric McLoughlin (edited 01-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Eric McLoughlin (edited 01-19-2000).]

[Xaxor]

I agree that the story is sappy and secondary to the racing footage. However, as mentioned already, there apparently were numerous problems in coming up with a reasonable script, one that would be true to racing and also be entertaining to the general public. At least one group of writers was fired during the making of the film. I think that quite a number of dialogue bits that explain racing come from automotive literature of the 50s and 60s, particularly from the writings of Ken Purdy. I'm sure that the line by Montand: "...when something really horrible happens, I put my foot down, HARD, because I know everyone else is lifting his.." preceeds the movie. (At one point in my life, I could recite every line of this movie by heart!)

[Xaxor]

I dug up an old Car&Driver which had a feature story on the making of 'Grand Prix'. The reference to Purdy above is not correct. The writer is Robert Daley who wrote 'The Cruel Sport'. The story is as follows:

Frankenheimer read 'The Cruel Sport' and liked it so much that he decided to make a movie about F1 for MGM. He hired Daley to write the screenplay. Steve McQueen then approached Frankenheimer for a part in 'Grand Prix'. After two days of discussions, Frankenheimer refused, not wanting to make a "Steve McQueen Vehicle". McQueen then decided to make his own movie for Warner Bros., "Day of the Champion". He went and hired Ken Purdy to write the script. Eventually, Frankenheimer fired Daley who went over to work with Purdy on 'Champion'.

To answer a previous question, McQueen signed the rights for the French GP at Reims which forced Frankenheimer to stage his race at Clermont-Ferrand.

One of the most interesting stories involves Garner. Apparently Garner was the fastest of the actor drivers and also faster than some of the professional Europeans! One of these Europeans really had a problem with this. I'd love to know who this was.

[Tarnik]

Yep, I saw it a month or so ago. Bad story, but what the hey. Good racing. I believe the British GP at Brand Hatch was also entirely staged. Too bad the "sport" (TV commercial is more like it) of F1 is totally ruined everywhere you look now. A shame.

[Ray Bell]

I think I recall reading at the time that Garner learned a lot about driving during the shooting of the movie. I seriously doubt that he was quicker than the 'professional Europeans,' although he may have been quicker than some of the drivers doing the stunt work in the look-alike F3 cars. Maybe it was the one they shot over the Monza banking?

[Joe Fan]

Razor, Grand Prix is the greatest movie ever produced about a motorsport. I bet though that it probably received lukewarm attendance at the box office. It seems that very few "sports" movies (even if they win a bunch of awards) do very well at the box office. Considering that motorsports at that time wasn't as huge as it is today, it probably didn't do as well as it should or as well as it would have today.

BTW, the January 2000 issue of MotorSport has an article in it on James Garner and he talks a little bit about his experience filming the movie Grand Prix.

[This message has been edited by Joe Fan (edited 01-22-2000).]

[VanAndy]

Well, the story in Grand Prix may not have been great, but I don't think it was terrible. And compared to virtually all of the mainstream Hollywood drivel of the last 20 years or so, it's not bad at all. There was at least some attempt at character development and to move beyond one-dimensional cliches.

I have very little faith that the likes of Renny Harlin and Stallone, based on their past body of work, will come up with something that's better. In fact, I'd be shocked if they did. These two will likely have trouble moving beyond the black-and-white/good guy vs. bad guy type movie. Which is a shame, because there's such good raw material to work with. I hope they surprise us, and don't do another Days of Thunder-ish piece of fluff.

[VanAndy]

P.S. Too bad someone like John Sayles couldn't do this one...

[F1razor]

Well, I don't know if I would go so far as to call it the 'greatest motorsport movie' ever produced.

But I appreciate very much all of the inside info I am getting here. This truly is an example of the power of the internet.

But back to my main point, I mean, if you want gratituous race footage, I hear the imax CART film is the way to go.

Still, I did enjoy the film, and there WAS a story to follow. I also enjoyed the film music and the overture. I thought it was a neat score with the trombones simulating the sound of the cars roaring by.
I was simply curious as to the publics reception to it. If it won an Oscar or two, it obviously had an impact. I know it does in this tiny town in Alaska where I live now, I went to the video store and asked for it and the lady knew right where it was and made a comment that she had to get two copies because everyone kept asking for it.

Maybe it's just the period or whatever, but the whole thing seemed to have kind of a dark overtone, everyone seemed to be depressed, except the young italian Ferrari driver.

Who knows how Stallone's movie will turn out, but I am pleased that it will be about modern F1.

[Ray Bell]

About the same time as Grand Prix there was a story in Road & Track about a French film with subtitles called "A Man And A Woman," with some complimentary remarks about its motor racing content. It was almost a full page in the mag, as I recall. I went to see it.
It is probably still my favourite movie.
A decade ago I heard that it was released on video, so ultimately I got it out on rental and watched it again. It lost something because it was dubbed. But there was also a sequel, made because they just knew it would be a success and the cast and crew arranged to get together in twenty years to do it.
It's interesting, also on video, but not dubbed - just subtitles. All the same people, the kids grown up, the adults getting old, the cars a new generation. But it's not as good. Just worth watching.
It's called "A Man And A Woman 20 Years On" or something like that. I had to drive to the other side of Brisbane to rent them, but the shop has regular call on the tapes and is keeping them.
Pays to have two VCRs...

[Ian McKean]

Ray,

I have seen "Un Homme et une femme" and agree with you its brilliant. Only one scene niggles a bit when the guy starts ad libbing about using organ pipes for exhaust pipes. When it came to Oxford in the late sixties my friend Mike Lamb saw it three nights running.

"A Man and a Woman" reminds us how the Continentals tend not to separate racing from rallying, or single-seaters from saloons. I like their approach.

Talking of Mike Lamb reminds me of his hero (and mine) Steve McQueen. Now there was a cool guy and a fine driver too.

[luisfelipetrigo]

A man and a woman was the 1966 Oscar winner for Foreing Language Film and Story Written Directly for the Screen; as a reference -- in that year A Man for All Seasons and Who is Afraid of Virginia Wolf? split honors with 6 Oscars each -- GRAND PRIX won three Oscars that same year.
The story of A Man and a Woman is wonderfull/excellent. It is a great movie.
On a recent thread on racing quotes I contributed one from this film, it goes somewhat like this: "You have to take this turn at 240km/h ... if you take it at 239 you will loose the race ... if you take it at 241 you will loose the car"
The movie features a Mustang GT350 (white with blue stripes) and the Ford GT40 MK2 which won that year the 24 hrs of Le Mans (Chris Amon and Bruce McLaren) after six years of Ferrari domination.

A bit of trivia on Steve McQueen. The movie Le Mans was filmed in 1970; in order to get ready for it Steve raced a few times before June of that year. Peter Revson (who was mainly involved in Can-AM) was invited to participate in the 1970 12 hrs of Sebring by some 'stranger' he met just a couple of days before the race.
The Sebring record books show the closest ever finish the one on the 1970 race:
First place Mario Andretti
Second place Steve McQueen & Peter Revson -- just 22 seconds behind after 12 hours (or 43,200 seconds)!!!



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Saludos
Luis Felipe

[Ray Bell]

In Australia, to my knowledge, "A Man And A Woman" is the only film ever to feature on commercial TV's holy of holies, Sunday Night movie spot with subtitles.
As far as I know, the sequel has never been shown. But we do have a foreign language channel now, which I never watch. But I did tape "From Hollywood to Tamanrasset" a couple of years ago because of its connection with the London-Munich World Cup rally. It is a comedy, and I like comedy, so I'll watch it one day.
In the meantime, you must read "A Boot Full of Right Arms," THE book about that rally.

[Joe Fan]

Razor, if Grand Prix isn't the greatest motorsports movie ever produced, what is? I would like to know so I can watch it. I know the plot in Grand Prix wasn't so hot but it did capture the excitement of grand prix racing.